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Old 12-18-2012, 09:16 PM   #1
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Default I need a sanity check here

Hey all!

I was just playing Bru'n Water trying to get a recipe to match up as closely as possible to the original. I realized after playing with the sheets for a while, I might have gone full tweaker and overdone it, but the numbers seem to match up. I was just hoping for a sanity check.

The recipe: http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/farmhouse-rye-ale

I do full volume BIAB (mostly due to laziness), so I'm starting at 7.75gal H2O.

My adjustments come out to:

Code:
			Ca	Mg	Na	SO4	Cl	HCO3
Existing Water Profile	9	1	6	9	7	19
Finished Water Profile	87	15	20	55	38	251
				
Mash Parameters								
Batch Volume (gal)	5.00	Hardness (ppm as CaCO3)		279	RA (ppm as CaCO3)	137
Estimated Mash pH	5.2	Alkalinity (ppm as CaCO3)	208	SO4/Cl Ratio		1.47
So that means adding...
Epsom Salt: 3.5g
Baking Soda: 1.5g
Calcium Chloride: 1.5g
Pickling Lime: 3.5g
Magnesium Chloride: 0.5g

Does that look right? That just seems to me to be a lot of additions to get the mash pH in line and approximate the water profile in Denmark. I just want to make sure I'm not making a mess before proceeding. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:18 PM   #2
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Nope! You are insane. Sorry!


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Old 12-18-2012, 09:39 PM   #3
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You're putting all that junk in that lovely water?

I don't know where you are getting pH and buffering capacity data for your malts but its probable you don't need nearly that amount of alkali. I'd do a test mash and check the pH of that before dumpling in lime and bicarb.

Epsom salts seldom bring anything to the table.

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Old 12-18-2012, 09:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdelange View Post
You're putting all that junk in that lovely water?

I don't know where you are getting pH and buffering capacity data for your malts but its probable you don't need nearly that amount of alkali. I'd do a test mash and check the pH of that before dumpling in lime and bicarb.

Epsom salts seldom bring anything to the table.
I realized when I got the report back from Ward that I completely lucked out with my local water supply. I'm of the opinion less is more, so it's usually just a bit of CaCl2 to get the calcium up and that's it.

Based on the grain bill, if I do nothing, this is what I end up with:
Code:
			Ca	Mg	Na	SO4	Cl	HCO3
Existing Water Profile	9	1	6	9	7	19
Finished Water Profile	9	1	6	9	7	19
				
Mash Parameters								
Batch Volume (gal)	5.00	Hardness (ppm as CaCO3)		27	RA (ppm as CaCO3)	9
Estimated Mash pH	4.7	Alkalinity (ppm as CaCO3)	16	SO4/Cl Ratio		1.29
I was a wee bit nervous about that pH. That seems way too low to be ok. I was also trying to match the water profile a bit closer to that of the source water of the clone, but after seeing how those additions came out, I realize he might just have crap water. Amazing how well the beer turned out considering what he had to work with.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uberg33k View Post
I realized when I got the report back from Ward that I completely lucked out with my local water supply. I'm of the opinion less is more, so it's usually just a bit of CaCl2 to get the calcium up and that's it.

Based on the grain bill, if I do nothing, this is what I end up with:
Code:
			Ca	Mg	Na	SO4	Cl	HCO3
Existing Water Profile	9	1	6	9	7	19
Finished Water Profile	9	1	6	9	7	19
				
Mash Parameters								
Batch Volume (gal)	5.00	Hardness (ppm as CaCO3)		27	RA (ppm as CaCO3)	9
Estimated Mash pH	4.7	Alkalinity (ppm as CaCO3)	16	SO4/Cl Ratio		1.29
I was a wee bit nervous about that pH. That seems way too low to be ok. I was also trying to match the water profile a bit closer to that of the source water of the clone, but after seeing how those additions came out, I realize he might just have crap water. Amazing how well the beer turned out considering what he had to work with.

Can you screenshot the page where you entered your malts in for your mash? The modified bicarb level does seem high. EDIT: I just tried entering it in Bru'n Water. With roughly half the bicarb level in your adjusted water it gave me an estimated pH of 5.4. My calcium was at 80, similar to yours.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afr0byte View Post
Can you screenshot the page where you entered your malts in for your mash? The modified bicarb level does seem high. EDIT: I just tried entering it in Bru'n Water. With roughly half the bicarb level in your adjusted water it gave me an estimated pH of 5.4. My calcium was at 80, similar to yours.


This did help me catch one error, which was I had Munich II at 108L instead of 8L. That helped a bit on the pH (5.0 instead of 4.7 with no additions), but I still seem to be lacking a bit.
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Old 12-19-2012, 01:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uberg33k View Post


This did help me catch one error, which was I had Munich II at 108L instead of 8L. That helped a bit on the pH (5.0 instead of 4.7 with no additions), but I still seem to be lacking a bit.
You should mark Amber Malt and the Dark Crystal Malt as Crystal Malts. The smoked malt should be a base malt. EDIT: Also, I think you'll need to add more alkalinity for this grist, so don't be afraid to add some (preferably slaked lime).
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:33 PM   #8
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Ah yes, that does help a bit.

Code:
			Ca	Mg	Na	SO4	Cl	HCO3
Existing Water Profile	9	1	6	9	7	19
Finished Water Profile	67	5	6	37	36	132
				
Mash Parameters								
Batch Volume (gal)	5.00	Hardness (ppm as CaCO3)		189	RA (ppm as CaCO3)	58
Estimated Mash pH	5.2	Alkalinity (ppm as CaCO3)	109	SO4/Cl Ratio		1.04
That's 1.5g of Gypsum, 1g CaCl, 2g Slated Lime, and 1g MgCl2. That sounds a bit more sane, yes?
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uberg33k View Post
Ah yes, that does help a bit.

Code:
			Ca	Mg	Na	SO4	Cl	HCO3
Existing Water Profile	9	1	6	9	7	19
Finished Water Profile	67	5	6	37	36	132
				
Mash Parameters								
Batch Volume (gal)	5.00	Hardness (ppm as CaCO3)		189	RA (ppm as CaCO3)	58
Estimated Mash pH	5.2	Alkalinity (ppm as CaCO3)	109	SO4/Cl Ratio		1.04
That's 1.5g of Gypsum, 1g CaCl, 2g Slated Lime, and 1g MgCl2. That sounds a bit more sane, yes?

Yeah, that seems better.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:36 PM   #10
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Yeah, wow much better. Is that MgCl or MgSO4? In either case I would drop it. The malt will have enough Mg. It's better to under do it than over do it. The calculator spread sheets are a good approximation, but still just an approximation. If you aim short, measure pH and add acid if needed you are probably better off.

Here is some information:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/10/mash-ph.html

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