Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Winners Re-Re-Drawn - 24 hours to Claim!

Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > I need a sanity check here
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-18-2012, 10:16 PM   #1
uberg33k
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alpharetta, Georgia
Posts: 312
Liked 12 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default I need a sanity check here

Hey all!

I was just playing Bru'n Water trying to get a recipe to match up as closely as possible to the original. I realized after playing with the sheets for a while, I might have gone full tweaker and overdone it, but the numbers seem to match up. I was just hoping for a sanity check.

The recipe: http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/farmhouse-rye-ale

I do full volume BIAB (mostly due to laziness), so I'm starting at 7.75gal H2O.

My adjustments come out to:

Code:
			Ca	Mg	Na	SO4	Cl	HCO3
Existing Water Profile	9	1	6	9	7	19
Finished Water Profile	87	15	20	55	38	251
				
Mash Parameters								
Batch Volume (gal)	5.00	Hardness (ppm as CaCO3)		279	RA (ppm as CaCO3)	137
Estimated Mash pH	5.2	Alkalinity (ppm as CaCO3)	208	SO4/Cl Ratio		1.47
So that means adding...
Epsom Salt: 3.5g
Baking Soda: 1.5g
Calcium Chloride: 1.5g
Pickling Lime: 3.5g
Magnesium Chloride: 0.5g

Does that look right? That just seems to me to be a lot of additions to get the mash pH in line and approximate the water profile in Denmark. I just want to make sure I'm not making a mess before proceeding. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
__________________
uberg33k is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-18-2012, 10:18 PM   #2
cheezydemon3
Registered User
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: louisville
Posts: 12,967
Liked 1649 Times on 1240 Posts
Likes Given: 3007

Default

Nope! You are insane. Sorry!


__________________
cheezydemon3 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-18-2012, 10:39 PM   #3
ajdelange
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 6,346
Liked 654 Times on 542 Posts
Likes Given: 19

Default

You're putting all that junk in that lovely water?

I don't know where you are getting pH and buffering capacity data for your malts but its probable you don't need nearly that amount of alkali. I'd do a test mash and check the pH of that before dumpling in lime and bicarb.

Epsom salts seldom bring anything to the table.

__________________
ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-18-2012, 10:57 PM   #4
uberg33k
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alpharetta, Georgia
Posts: 312
Liked 12 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdelange View Post
You're putting all that junk in that lovely water?

I don't know where you are getting pH and buffering capacity data for your malts but its probable you don't need nearly that amount of alkali. I'd do a test mash and check the pH of that before dumpling in lime and bicarb.

Epsom salts seldom bring anything to the table.
I realized when I got the report back from Ward that I completely lucked out with my local water supply. I'm of the opinion less is more, so it's usually just a bit of CaCl2 to get the calcium up and that's it.

Based on the grain bill, if I do nothing, this is what I end up with:
Code:
			Ca	Mg	Na	SO4	Cl	HCO3
Existing Water Profile	9	1	6	9	7	19
Finished Water Profile	9	1	6	9	7	19
				
Mash Parameters								
Batch Volume (gal)	5.00	Hardness (ppm as CaCO3)		27	RA (ppm as CaCO3)	9
Estimated Mash pH	4.7	Alkalinity (ppm as CaCO3)	16	SO4/Cl Ratio		1.29
I was a wee bit nervous about that pH. That seems way too low to be ok. I was also trying to match the water profile a bit closer to that of the source water of the clone, but after seeing how those additions came out, I realize he might just have crap water. Amazing how well the beer turned out considering what he had to work with.
__________________
uberg33k is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2012, 02:09 PM   #5
afr0byte
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,433
Liked 72 Times on 61 Posts
Likes Given: 49

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uberg33k View Post
I realized when I got the report back from Ward that I completely lucked out with my local water supply. I'm of the opinion less is more, so it's usually just a bit of CaCl2 to get the calcium up and that's it.

Based on the grain bill, if I do nothing, this is what I end up with:
Code:
			Ca	Mg	Na	SO4	Cl	HCO3
Existing Water Profile	9	1	6	9	7	19
Finished Water Profile	9	1	6	9	7	19
				
Mash Parameters								
Batch Volume (gal)	5.00	Hardness (ppm as CaCO3)		27	RA (ppm as CaCO3)	9
Estimated Mash pH	4.7	Alkalinity (ppm as CaCO3)	16	SO4/Cl Ratio		1.29
I was a wee bit nervous about that pH. That seems way too low to be ok. I was also trying to match the water profile a bit closer to that of the source water of the clone, but after seeing how those additions came out, I realize he might just have crap water. Amazing how well the beer turned out considering what he had to work with.

Can you screenshot the page where you entered your malts in for your mash? The modified bicarb level does seem high. EDIT: I just tried entering it in Bru'n Water. With roughly half the bicarb level in your adjusted water it gave me an estimated pH of 5.4. My calcium was at 80, similar to yours.
__________________
afr0byte is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2012, 02:56 PM   #6
uberg33k
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alpharetta, Georgia
Posts: 312
Liked 12 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by afr0byte View Post
Can you screenshot the page where you entered your malts in for your mash? The modified bicarb level does seem high. EDIT: I just tried entering it in Bru'n Water. With roughly half the bicarb level in your adjusted water it gave me an estimated pH of 5.4. My calcium was at 80, similar to yours.


This did help me catch one error, which was I had Munich II at 108L instead of 8L. That helped a bit on the pH (5.0 instead of 4.7 with no additions), but I still seem to be lacking a bit.
__________________
uberg33k is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2012, 02:59 PM   #7
afr0byte
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,433
Liked 72 Times on 61 Posts
Likes Given: 49

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uberg33k View Post


This did help me catch one error, which was I had Munich II at 108L instead of 8L. That helped a bit on the pH (5.0 instead of 4.7 with no additions), but I still seem to be lacking a bit.
You should mark Amber Malt and the Dark Crystal Malt as Crystal Malts. The smoked malt should be a base malt. EDIT: Also, I think you'll need to add more alkalinity for this grist, so don't be afraid to add some (preferably slaked lime).
__________________
afr0byte is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2012, 04:33 PM   #8
uberg33k
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Alpharetta, Georgia
Posts: 312
Liked 12 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

Ah yes, that does help a bit.

Code:
			Ca	Mg	Na	SO4	Cl	HCO3
Existing Water Profile	9	1	6	9	7	19
Finished Water Profile	67	5	6	37	36	132
				
Mash Parameters								
Batch Volume (gal)	5.00	Hardness (ppm as CaCO3)		189	RA (ppm as CaCO3)	58
Estimated Mash pH	5.2	Alkalinity (ppm as CaCO3)	109	SO4/Cl Ratio		1.04
That's 1.5g of Gypsum, 1g CaCl, 2g Slated Lime, and 1g MgCl2. That sounds a bit more sane, yes?
__________________
uberg33k is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2012, 05:12 PM   #9
afr0byte
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,433
Liked 72 Times on 61 Posts
Likes Given: 49

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uberg33k View Post
Ah yes, that does help a bit.

Code:
			Ca	Mg	Na	SO4	Cl	HCO3
Existing Water Profile	9	1	6	9	7	19
Finished Water Profile	67	5	6	37	36	132
				
Mash Parameters								
Batch Volume (gal)	5.00	Hardness (ppm as CaCO3)		189	RA (ppm as CaCO3)	58
Estimated Mash pH	5.2	Alkalinity (ppm as CaCO3)	109	SO4/Cl Ratio		1.04
That's 1.5g of Gypsum, 1g CaCl, 2g Slated Lime, and 1g MgCl2. That sounds a bit more sane, yes?

Yeah, that seems better.
__________________
afr0byte is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2012, 08:36 PM   #10
WoodlandBrew
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
WoodlandBrew's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Malden, MA
Posts: 1,845
Liked 135 Times on 131 Posts
Likes Given: 58

Default

Yeah, wow much better. Is that MgCl or MgSO4? In either case I would drop it. The malt will have enough Mg. It's better to under do it than over do it. The calculator spread sheets are a good approximation, but still just an approximation. If you aim short, measure pH and add acid if needed you are probably better off.

Here is some information:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/10/mash-ph.html

__________________

The 2nd edition is now available: Brewing Engineering
Woodland Brewing Research Blog Applied Science for Better Beer.

WoodlandBrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sanity Check Please... dprbrts42 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 13 09-28-2011 02:57 PM
Sanity check trigger Electric Brewing 46 12-18-2010 12:41 AM
Greetings. First PM sanity check? jayL All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 1 09-19-2010 02:57 AM
Sanity Check Beer_Maker Brew Stands 5 03-14-2010 01:28 PM
Sanity Check on my IPA Benjibbad All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 9 07-21-2009 08:07 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS