New Giveaway - Wort Monster Conical Fermenter!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > I have never cared about mash ph until now




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-08-2013, 06:02 PM   #1
The_Glue
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 176
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default I have never cared about mash ph until now

So i put some of my recent recipes along with my water profile into Brewer's Friend calculator and Bru'n Water and all of my mash phs came out in the range of 6-6.6.

My LHBS sells citric acid and ph strips, will they be enough to cure my ph problems?
(btw i don't know when should i measure ph, when to add the acid, how much etc.)



__________________
The_Glue is offline
matc Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-08-2013, 06:27 PM   #2
mabrungard
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 2,517
Liked 158 Times on 136 Posts
Likes Given: 24

Default

If the mash pH is predicting that high, there must be a decent amount of alkalinity in the water. Using citric acid to neutralize that alkalinity would likely contribute a 'taste' to the beer. I recommend using lactic acid if the alkalinity is less than about 100 to 150 ppm as CaCO3. If the alkalinity is higher than that, using phosphoric acid would have less flavor impact than lactic.



__________________

Martin B
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook for occasional discussions on brewing water and Bru'n Water

mabrungard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-08-2013, 07:28 PM   #3
The_Glue
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 176
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mabrungard View Post
If the mash pH is predicting that high, there must be a decent amount of alkalinity in the water. Using citric acid to neutralize that alkalinity would likely contribute a 'taste' to the beer. I recommend using lactic acid if the alkalinity is less than about 100 to 150 ppm as CaCO3. If the alkalinity is higher than that, using phosphoric acid would have less flavor impact than lactic.
My alkalinity came out around 300.
Maybe i should use RO or distilled water threated with some salts/stuff?
Is this quote from the sticky still stands?
Quote:
Baseline: Add 1 tsp of calcium chloride dihydrate (what your LHBS sells) to each 5 gallons of water treated. Add 2% sauermalz to the grist.
There is a bigass tapwater filter in my house which i know nothing about, it is used to soften the city water and sometimes i need to dump huge amounts of salts into it.

I think i will look into that filter and will report back into the topic.
__________________
The_Glue is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2013, 01:07 AM   #4
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 58,729
Liked 3875 Times on 2830 Posts
Likes Given: 648

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Glue View Post
My alkalinity came out around 300.
Maybe i should use RO or distilled water threated with some salts/stuff?
Is this quote from the sticky still stands?
OUCH! 300 ppm is a very high alkalinity. You could dilute (a lot) with distilled or RO water. The sticky is meant to add the caCl2 to RO water.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2013, 07:24 AM   #5
The_Glue
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 176
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
OUCH! 300 ppm is a very high alkalinity. You could dilute (a lot) with distilled or RO water. The sticky is meant to add the caCl2 to RO water.
Will i be able to hit the more ideal ph ranges with this "custom water" with every kind of recipes (from a light single malt beer to a black stout) or i still should get some ph measuring equipment and some kind of acid?
__________________
The_Glue is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2013, 09:07 AM   #6
The_Glue
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 176
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Ok, that big blue box which is messing with my tapwater (the highly alkaline water mentioned in the OP was bottled water, i have never tried this softened water for brewing yet)
is a water softener.
It uses some kind of resin and salts to make the water softer and in my understanding it replaces Ca and Mg with Na.

Can i treat it the same way as RO water and add that tablespoon of CaCl2 or i can't use it as brewing water?

__________________
The_Glue is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2013, 11:02 AM   #7
mchrispen
accidentalis.com
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mchrispen's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bastrop, Texas
Posts: 391
Liked 45 Times on 36 Posts
Likes Given: 39

Default

I would not use water softened with sodium. My filtered tap is similar, very high alkalinity and nearly 300 ppm sodium.

I switched to RO, after my Ward Report, and did a test brew on store bought RO which convinced me. Rather than dosing with large amounts of phosphoric and never really getting below 5.7 pH, I find mash pH settling easily and quickly where I want it. More importantly, I am seeing much better results, crisper flavor and healthier fermentation. Previously conversion would take 45 minutes in my mash, now it's 5 or 10 minutes at most.

Adding ions is really easy once you get your head around it, and are measuring with accurate instruments (pH meter, a good gram weight scale, TDS meter), and using them consistently.

__________________
Matt Chrispen
Bastrop, Texas
www.accidentalis.com - blogging from the garage brewery
Bru'n Water Walkthrough
mchrispen is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2013, 12:41 PM   #8
The_Glue
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 176
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mchrispen View Post
I would not use water softened with sodium. My filtered tap is similar, very high alkalinity and nearly 300 ppm sodium.

I switched to RO, after my Ward Report, and did a test brew on store bought RO which convinced me. Rather than dosing with large amounts of phosphoric and never really getting below 5.7 pH, I find mash pH settling easily and quickly where I want it. More importantly, I am seeing much better results, crisper flavor and healthier fermentation. Previously conversion would take 45 minutes in my mash, now it's 5 or 10 minutes at most.

Adding ions is really easy once you get your head around it, and are measuring with accurate instruments (pH meter, a good gram weight scale, TDS meter), and using them consistently.
It seems like the possibility of buying RO water or refilling my cans/bottles etc. with RO water is not existing in my country. I have to buy bottles of distilled water. The distilled water sold here is for refilling steam iron and stuff like that, is that food grade?
__________________
The_Glue is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2013, 12:45 PM   #9
emjay
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 12,692
Liked 1711 Times on 1600 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Glue View Post

It seems like the possibility of buying RO water or refilling my cans/bottles etc. with RO water is not existing in my country. I have to buy bottles of distilled water. The distilled water sold here is for refilling steam iron and stuff like that, is that food grade?
Should be. I use distilled instead of RO too. It's even more pure - I think the only reason RO water is recommended is because it's often cheaper, and some people have home RO systems.
__________________
emjay is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2013, 01:01 PM   #10
mchrispen
accidentalis.com
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mchrispen's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bastrop, Texas
Posts: 391
Liked 45 Times on 36 Posts
Likes Given: 39

Default

Emjay is correct, as long as the packaging of the distiller is food safe.

If you are planning to brew for a long time, do consider an inexpensive RO filter. This would work well after your softener, and may pay for itself compared to the costs of purchasing and transporting distilled. It can seem pricey upfront, and you would need to figure if it is worth the effort for you. A small system is adequate for brewing, but you will need to gather water ahead of the brew day... They can be very slow to output 7 or 10 gallons. A little searching here can yield an inexpensive system recommendation, usually from an aquarium focused site. Don't bother with the deionize stages... It just takes you to the same purity as distilled.

Not sure where you are located, but I assume if there are filtered softeners - you might find an RO system.



__________________
Matt Chrispen
Bastrop, Texas
www.accidentalis.com - blogging from the garage brewery
Bru'n Water Walkthrough
mchrispen is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Honest, I looked. Mash Tun False Bottom vs Mash Ratio question MuddyCreek All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 2 08-23-2013 02:35 PM
How to Setup a Detailed Beersmith Mash Profile for Cooler-based Mash Tuns ViperMan All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 6 06-08-2013 07:29 PM
Hops in AL / Hops not cared for gtg644w Hops Growing 9 08-29-2012 05:16 PM
How much mash can a mash tun mash? Need Help for Tomorrow's Brew! ryan_pants Equipment/Sanitation 3 02-11-2007 01:44 AM