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Old 01-30-2010, 01:23 AM   #11
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"Remember when measuring PH, with rare exception you will be performing the measurement near room temp and there is a correction for PH at mash temp. I believe the rough correction is subtract 0.3PH from your room temp reading."
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen_Brew View Post
One last thought. Remember when measuring PH, with rare exception you will be performing the measurement near room temp and there is a correction for PH at mash temp. I believe the rough correction is subtract 0.3PH from your room temp reading.

I used to make the mistake of thinking if you used test strips you were dipping them in the wort at mash temp, but in reality as soon as you remove the strip to read it, the strip rapidly cools to room temp as it is a very small volume of wort on the strip and will not hold the temp once removed from the wort.

Some high end PH meters will take a reading at 150 degrees, but not many of them.
Good reminder! The one I use from Morebeer.com is temp compensated from 32-140F: http://morebeer.com/view_product/187...Meter_-_Phep_5

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Old 02-01-2010, 12:36 AM   #13
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You can taste lactic acid at relatively modest concentrations, the question is, is the taste a bad thing? Get a pipette (or a syringe and make a diluted working solution) and play around with adding various amounts to finished beer. This will inform you about where your flavor threshold for lactic is and what a beer with some lactic flavor, which is not sour, tastes like.

It takes quite a bit to make the beer actually sour, you won't make the beer sour by adjusting your mash pH to a normal level.

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Old 12-19-2011, 03:27 AM   #14
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hmm, digging up an old thread here, but can anyone comment on experience using lactic acid to the point where they could taste it? we brewed a brown tonight, and added 9ml to 7.5 gallons of mash (biab) to bring the ph down to a good level. this was for a 5 gallon batch. was it too much?

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Old 12-19-2011, 01:10 PM   #15
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If you read back in this thread the general consensus is that adding more than 2ml of lactic acid (88%) per gallon may be detected. Of course that will depend on the beer being made and your general sensitivity to these things.

So for 7.5 gallons that would be 15ml instead of the 9ml you added. Will you notice 9ml? I don't know.

That said, 9ml in a brown (which I'm assuming has plenty of darker malts) seems like an aweful lot to have to bring the pH down. What's was the grain bill? What kind of water? What were you measuring pH with? At what temp?

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Old 12-19-2011, 02:39 PM   #16
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ok, i wasnt sure if there were current different opinions on the 2ml of lactic acid per gallon. it did seem like an aweful lot to add, and caught me off guard. this brew was done with the biab method, so all 7.5 gallons were treated with the grains in. we used distilled water, with .75 gallons of my tap water. we also added 3 grams of gypsum, and 3 grams of calcium chloride.

our ph meter is a ysi ecosense ph10, 3 point calbirated and checked before brewing. i am nearly positive our meter was reading right. when i take a sample, i cool it down by running cool water on the outside of the container, and then taking a reading. temp of sample was around 23c. however, i wish i would have tossed in a ph strip just for good measure, but i didnt.



mash schedule
@15 minutes ph was 5.8
@20 minutes ph was 5.7 add 3ml lactic acid
@30 minutes ph was 5.7, add 3ml lactic acid
@35 minutes ph was 5.5 add 3ml lactic acid
@45 minutes ph was 5.3

the beer was a caribou slobber american brown from northern brewer

9 lbs rahr 2 row pale
.75 lbs briess caramel 60l
.5 lbs briess caramel 80l
.25 lbs fawcett pale chocolate
.125 lbs english black malt

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Old 12-19-2011, 03:29 PM   #17
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IMHO, it doesn't make any sense that you'd need any lactic with a recipe like this when using mostly distilled water.

Distilled water has a PH of 7, I don't know what your tap water's like but you didn't add much so the total water is likely close to distilled.

Gypsum and Calc Chloride both lower pH.

When I punch these into EZ water 3 the estimated room temp pH is 5.5 which is exactly in between the 5.4-5.6 desired room temp mash pH.

My guess is that something's wrong with the way it was measured.

Kal

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Old 12-19-2011, 04:02 PM   #18
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Agreed, sounds like a lot of Lactic for that recipe.

I have pretty alkaline water, so I use a combination of Reverse Osmosis water dilution (40-80% RO) and lactic addition to bring my pH to 5.5. For really light pilsners and Kolsch, I add up to 2 or 3 mL, for darker beers I add 0-1 mL. This into 5 gallons of wort. A little lactic can go a long way.

I haven't been able to taste it at all with these low concentrations.

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Old 12-19-2011, 04:03 PM   #19
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i am not sure, maybe it is my ph meter. i just fired it up and stuck it in some 4 buffer, it was reading 4.54, with 7 buffer it was reading 7.66. it was reading buffers correctly before we mashed in yesterday, so not sure if its the meter or not. calibrated the meter again this morning, (3 point) and double checked all the buffers to make sure it was reading correctly, and it was. i have a bit of the post boil wort that has been sitting on the counter over night, and it is reading a ph of 5.00. ph strips are telling me 5 also. will boiled wort drop or increase in ph vs mashed ph readings?

another question: my ph meter has temp correction built in. what ph should i be shooting for? i see people shooting for a different ph at mash temp vs room temp. i have never stuck this ph meter into 150f water, and do not care to for the sake of finding out. will the temp correction on the meter read the ph the same at 150 vs room temp, or is it actually the mash itself that is changing in ph with a temp drop?

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Old 12-20-2011, 04:03 PM   #20
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well, after doing some research, i guess it IS the mash that actually changes in ph with temperature, not a function of the ph meter. wish i knew that a week or two ago! so, this should be what to aim for, correct?

Measuring pH at mash temperature (lets say 65°C)

Target: 5.2-5.4 Acceptable +/- 0.1

Measuring pH at room temperature (lets say 21°C)

Target: 5.4 - 5.6 Acceptable +/- 0.1

kind of a bummer to find this out now, we brewed our last three batches shooting for a mash ph of 5.2-5.3 at room temp. i just assumed the reason people were adjusting for temperature was because of their meters not adjusting for it. should have done a bit more reading, live and learn, just hope the beers dont turn out undrinkable!

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