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Old 01-23-2014, 07:19 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ajdelange View Post
'Always' and 'never' are not words found in the brewer's dictionary.



Lactic acid has a flavor that is desirable in many foods. Yoghurt, sour milk, sour cream, sourdough bread, guerze, lambic, Berliner weiße and even, it seems, pilsner and other lagers benefit from a hint of lactic. It is not just sour. In fact in most of those foods the sour is not that noticeable. It is the flavor from the latate ion.



If you are a German brewer any acid other than lactic produced in the brewery is forbidden so those guys have no choice.



If you are a homebrewer seeking to brew authentic German lagers you should definitely use sauergut or sauermalz for those nuanced flavor effects I mentioned in the last post.



Management of hard, carbonaceous waters with phosphoric is difficult because apatite is precipitated pulling out calcium and effectively increasing the strength of the acid. It can be done but is a bit tricky.

What about with RODI? And Phos Acid? Any advice?
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:17 PM   #12
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You will need some acid with most grain bills even with water with 0 proton deficit (alkalinity). It can be any acid you like. I think most people decide based on whether they are brewing German influenced styles or not in which case they are likely to use lactic acid/sauergut/sauermalz. If the style is British they will probably go with CRS if they can get it and for everything else, phosphoric.

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Old 01-23-2014, 11:20 PM   #13
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you will need some acid with most grain bills even with water with 0 proton deficit (alkalinity). It can be any acid you like. I think most people decide based on whether they are brewing german influenced styles or not in which case they are likely to use lactic acid/sauergut/sauermalz. If the style is british they will probably go with crs if they can get it and for everything else, phosphoric.

crs?
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:39 PM   #14
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CRS is an acid blend used in UK breweries. http://www.brupaks.com/brewing-aids.htm

It is rumored to be a bit more effective than the 10% phosphoric or 88% lactic acids available to the home brewer here in the US. Wish it was.

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Old 01-23-2014, 11:43 PM   #15
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CRS is an acid blend used in UK breweries. http://www.brupaks.com/brewing-aids.htm

It is rumored to be a bit more effective than the 10% phosphoric or 88% lactic acids available to the home brewer here in the US. Wish it was.

So it is a malt blend?
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Old 01-23-2014, 11:57 PM   #16
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No - it's a liquid acid treatment.

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Old 01-24-2014, 02:03 AM   #17
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It has been represented to me as being an equi-equivalent (i.e. half the protons come from each) blend of hydrochloric and sulfuric acids. I am guessing it is actually equi-molar as a proton is a proton and having it equimolar means equal amounts of chloride and sulfate added. It is made by a company called Brupaks and from the directions for its use (on their website) you can dope out the normality. They say to remove 160 ppm as CaCO3 (3.2 mEq/L) alkalinity you should use 0.87 cc/L. That means, if you take them at their word that you are going to completely 0 the alkalinity (to pH 4.5 or so) that the strength is 3.2/0.87 = 3.7 mEq/cc i.e. that is is 3.7 N. It is more reasonable to suppose that you will want to take out about 85% of the alkalinity to bring you to a more normal mash pH of about 4.5 in which case the strength would be about 3.1 N. By comparison, 88% lactic acid is 11.6 N and 10% phosphoric is about 1 N (to typical mash pH).

The only advantage offered by CRS ('Carbonate Reducing Solution') is that it makes protons from sulfate and chloride available to the brewer as opposed to phosphate or lactate. Lactate is fine if you are doing continental lagers but for British beers sulfuric and hydrochloric are more traditional.

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