Electric Brewing Supply 30A BCS Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > help with water report
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-22-2012, 03:11 PM   #1
krenshaw
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
krenshaw's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 1,090
Liked 48 Times on 44 Posts
Likes Given: 27

Default help with water report

i've been brewing for a while now but have never gotten into treating my water much.. i have a water filter that i always use from the hose to the HLT (similar to many of the DIY threads on here) but i recently received a report from ward labs, this was done pre-filter:

pH 8.0
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) ppm 328
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.55
Cations / Anions, me/L 5.8 / 4.7
Sodium, Na 17 ppm
Potassium, K 3 ppm
Calcium, Ca 55 ppm
Magnesium, Mg 27 ppm
Total Hardness, CaCO3 250 ppm
Nitrate, NO3-N 5.4 ppm (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 4 ppm
Chloride, Cl 25 ppm
Carbonate, CO3 6 ppm
Bicarbonate, HCO3 191 ppm
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 166 ppm

i'm brewing 3 beers next weekend.. a wheat, oatmeal stout, and tripel.. any help or suggestions on what i can easily do in the short term to possibly better the beers..

__________________

~ A fine beer may be judged with only one sip, but it's better to be thoroughly sure.

DOWN THE HATCH BREWING
Stainless Hop Spider | Wooden Brew Rig | Dual Hinge Keezer Build

Primaries.. oxy :-(
Keg 1: Apfelwein | Keg 2: BlackEyePA version2 | Keg 3: Summer Saison
Bottles: lots full and even more empty

krenshaw is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-22-2012, 04:14 PM   #2
Netflyer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Netflyer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Near Benedict Maryland
Posts: 812
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 45

Default

Do you have TH's spreadsheet?
http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/

Use that, put in your values and it will tell you where to go... I'd caution you to err on the low side of things as too much salt can screw up the beer taste. You have really good Total Alk and some could argue about CL/SO4 ratios all day long but for me, TH's spreadsheet gets my mash to the proper 'working' pH range... How does your brew taste now, before changing your water? Without the spreadsheet and just lookin at your stats I might add a tsp of gypsum if you make Stouts but other than that, I might be tempted to brew straight up w/your water.

__________________
Primaries:


Kegged:
RiClarke's Guinuess Clone w/da sour 6.4% ABV 1057 SG 1009 FG

Netflyer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-22-2012, 05:16 PM   #3
krenshaw
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
krenshaw's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 1,090
Liked 48 Times on 44 Posts
Likes Given: 27

Default

i've always brewed straight up after my inline filter, never had any problems.. i like my beer a lot, just didn't know with the numbers if it would make much of a noticeable difference if i conditioned it at all.. i'll take a look at the spreadsheet, maybe make a very minor change just to try something for my next one.. thanks for your help

__________________

~ A fine beer may be judged with only one sip, but it's better to be thoroughly sure.

DOWN THE HATCH BREWING
Stainless Hop Spider | Wooden Brew Rig | Dual Hinge Keezer Build

Primaries.. oxy :-(
Keg 1: Apfelwein | Keg 2: BlackEyePA version2 | Keg 3: Summer Saison
Bottles: lots full and even more empty

krenshaw is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-22-2012, 08:28 PM   #4
ajdelange
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 6,133
Liked 613 Times on 506 Posts
Likes Given: 19

Default

The only real problem I see with this water is the high alkalinity. You need to do something about this or mash pH will be too high. There are several things that can be done but in the short term perhaps the only practical one is to dilute the water at least 3:1 RO:tap. This will get the alkalinity down to about 41 which OK but a 4:1 dilution would get it to 35 which is better still. If you do this it would be a good idea to supplement the calcium with 1/2 - 1 tsp of calcium chloride per 5 gal treated and a good idea to use 2-3% sauermalz with the wheat beer and trippel (but not the stout). These recommendations are practical, of course, only if you have access to RO water, calcium chloride and sauermalz. If you don't then you could try adding the calcium chloride and then boiling the water. This should drop some of the alkalinity. Let the water cool and decant off the precipitate. Again, use the sauermalz if you have it. O/W just go ahead and brew with the water as it is. Then move on to figure out how to control mash pH in subsequent brews.

__________________
ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-23-2012, 01:32 PM   #5
Netflyer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Netflyer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Near Benedict Maryland
Posts: 812
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 45

Default

Well, before I post this I want you guys to know that I thought about this for at least a little while. I'm NOT the type of person who wants to pick a fight, especially about one of my favorite subjects in the world, brewing. Let me start by saying I believe there are many roads to good beer and if you divide these roads into the subsection that is brewing water you still have a few roads to choose from. For ME, this total alkalinity is just fine, I can deal with this and brew Beirmunchers Centennial blonde. Let me take one step back. I believe that the lightest color beer, the beer with the lowest SRM grain bill, aside from a lager, let's stay on ale here, can serve as a benchmark for the grain bill that probably isn't going to help the mash pH go down. Roasted malts and darker crystals malts will aid the pH drop, I don't think there is any argument that your Stout will be easier to convert (from starch to sugar in the Mash) than a 3.9 SRM Blonde Ale. So in this example with YOUR water, for a 5.5 gallon batch using the grain bill here in the recipe section under Beirmucher's Centennial Blonde Ale (if you haven't made this you are missing something special) 7# 2 row US, .75 Cara/dex, .5 10L, .5 Vienna = 8.75# grain. My pre-boil volume is 7.6 and I'm going to mash at around 1.2 ratio so my mash water is about 2.5 gallons. Now, just a little about 'my road' to beer water. I 'believe' in Cl/SO4 ratio's... I 'believe' in Residual Alkalinity... That said I try to use as little as possible and target a room pH Mash of 5.5... My water, deep well, has a bicarb of 166, yours is about 30 points higher but I would use what I use, Lactic Acid to treat just the mash water. Again, I 'believe' that after I turn the conversion off (between 168 and 172ish depending upon the type of Mashin' yer doin') the water chemistry doesn't matter AS MUCH, chloromines still matter and they should be removed from all water. Specifically for YOUR water, I'll use my 10 gal brewpot cause I don't know whatcha got over there, I would do the following, just make the additions to the mash water...1.5 ml of Lactic Acid, 1.5g gypsum, and .5g of CaCl, this gives you an estimated dead center room temp Mash pH (you want it between 5.4 and 5.6), heat this water up to strike temp ~ 163ish and Mash for 60 min at 150 for the finest Blonde Ale this side of the Pacific ocean.
Again, disclaimer, this is just the way I brew, I try to make it as simple as possible, a little salt and a little lactic acid...

Starting Water (ppm):


Ca: 55

Mg: 27

Na: 17

Cl: 25

SO4: 4

HCO3: 191





Mash / Sparge Vol (gal): 2.5 / 6.24 RO or distilled %: 0% / 0%



Total Grain (lb): 8.8





Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle: CaSO4: 1.5 / 0 CaCl2: 0.5 / 0 MgSO4: 0 / 0 NaHCO3: 0 / 0 CaCO3: 0 / 0 Lactic Acid (ml): 1.5

Sauermalz (oz): 0





Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 105 / 69 Mg: 27 / 27 Na: 17 / 17 Cl: 50 / 32 SO4: 92 / 29 Cl to SO4 Ratio: 0.55 / 1.10



Alkalinity (CaCO3): -29

RA: -121

Estimated pH: 5.50

(room temp)
__________________
Primaries:


Kegged:
RiClarke's Guinuess Clone w/da sour 6.4% ABV 1057 SG 1009 FG

Netflyer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-23-2012, 02:42 PM   #6
ajdelange
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 6,133
Liked 613 Times on 506 Posts
Likes Given: 19

Default

OP says his beers are OK but wants to know if 'conditioning', by which I assume he means adjustment to his water as that is what is under discussion here, could improve them. It can if he deals with his high alkalinity properly. Getting it down is necessary for proper mash pH which is the key to the 'all the flavors seem brighter' state of affairs which is the reward for properly managed pH control (assuming other things are done right). There are many ways to do this. Dilution with RO and back supplementation with calcium chloride is certainly the easiest of these and makes few demands on the brewer other than that he have a source of RO water and some calcium chloride neither of which is a terribly great demand as both are available at many super markets ('pickle crisp' is calcium chloride - look in the canning section). See the Primer for more details (though there aren't many).

__________________
ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-23-2012, 02:55 PM   #7
Netflyer
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Netflyer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Near Benedict Maryland
Posts: 812
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 45

Default

So what's wrong with treating just his mash water with Lactic acid and a little salt which woudn't require any RO water?

__________________
Primaries:


Kegged:
RiClarke's Guinuess Clone w/da sour 6.4% ABV 1057 SG 1009 FG

Netflyer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-23-2012, 07:32 PM   #8
ajdelange
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 6,133
Liked 613 Times on 506 Posts
Likes Given: 19

Default

Nothing. In fact he wouldn't even have to do that. He'd get a drinkable beer if he just brewed with the water as is but he wants to improve his beer. The best beers are made with low alkalinity, low mineral content water. It should be noted that this is in most peoples' opinion but not everyone's. It is generally best to start with the lowest mineral content water possible and make the minimal salt and acid additions and to work out from that starting point. If it turns out he likes his beer better with higher mineral content then he should brew with higher mineral content.

__________________
ajdelange is offline
Netflyer Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
North Penn Water Authority (Montgomery Co., PA) Water Report lebshiff21 Brew Science 11 04-30-2014 10:13 PM
Help Analyzing Water Report - Very Hard Water BrewThruYou Brew Science 6 04-18-2012 06:17 PM
Water Engineering for PA : AJs Water Primer based on Ward Lab Report mrcastellino Brew Science 4 11-22-2011 03:55 AM
Yet Another Water Report ( Local Spring Water) HansBlix Brew Science 3 11-13-2011 10:42 PM
Ward Water Report and Bru'n Water Sheet, now what? ToastedPenguin Brew Science 1 07-22-2011 07:58 PM