Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Winners Re-Re-Re-Re-Re-Drawn - 24 hours to Claim!

Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > Help understanding water report
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-18-2009, 03:47 AM   #1
dragon99
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 133
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default Help understanding water report

My local water report can be found here:
http://www.cstx.gov/docs/wqr2008.pdf

The parts that is confusing to me is that is lists bicarbonate as 459ppm, but carbonate alkalinity as 0ppm. Is this possible? How can the water have such a high bicarbonate level and not have any alkalinity?

__________________

Homer: “I’m feelin’ low, Apu. You got any of that beer that has candy floating in it, you know, Skittlebrau?”
Apu: “Such a product does not exist, sir! You must have dreamed it.”
Homer: “Oh. Well then just gimme a six-pack and a couple of bags of Skittles.”

dragon99 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2009, 05:08 AM   #2
Kaiser
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Kaiser's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pepperell, MA
Posts: 3,904
Liked 115 Times on 71 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Yes, something is not right with this report. But I wouldn't trust a report that includes puzzles anyway

One options is to call up the water department and tell them that you need to know the mineral content of the water (Ca, Mg, Cl ... so forth). If you end up talking to an engineer they'll know what you want. The other option is to spend a few bucks (15-20) and send a sample to Ward Labs. They'll get you the numbers.

Those Water Quality reports are pretty useless and even if they contain a few of the numbers you need, they tend to show max values b/c the purpose of these reports is to show you that your water is safe.

Kai

Kaiser is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2009, 02:03 PM   #3
LooyvilleLarry
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Louisville,KY
Posts: 988
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

In an attempt to completely hijack this thread while keeping on topic

Here is my water report:
Sodium, Na- 30 mg/l (ppm)
Calcium, Ca- 47 mg/l (ppm)
Magnesium, 12 Mg/L
Total Hardness, CaCO3- 165 Mg/l
Nitrate, NO3-N - 1.0 (ppm)
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 78 mg/l (ppm)
Potassium, K- I don’t have this information
Manganese ug/l (ppb) - 36 ppb
Sulfate, SO4-S - (ppm) – 59 ppm
Chloride, Cl (ppm) – 47 ppm
Carbonate, CO3 - <1 ppm
Bicarbonate, HCO3 – 78 ppm\

Using the advice located here, Brewing a Pale ale I come up with the following profile:
Ca(100)/Mg(20)/Na(25)/SO4(350)/CL(40)
that needs the following adjustments
Ca(53)/Mg(8)/Na(5)/SO4(291)/Cl(-7)

So, how do I get there??? I've use BrewSmith, but still haven't figured out all of the interactions.

I typically have used FiveStar 5.2 buffer in the filtered water and just let that go.

__________________
LooyvilleLarry is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2009, 03:18 PM   #4
SpanishCastleAle
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 4,384
Liked 29 Times on 29 Posts

Default

Quote:
So, how do I get there???
I would read Chapter 15 in Palmer's book How To Brew and then use the spreadsheet linked at the bottom of section 15.3.
__________________
Early brewers were primarily women, mostly because it was deemed a woman's job. Mesopotamian men, of some 3,800 years ago, were obviously complete assclowns and had yet to realize the pleasure of brewing beer.- Beer Advocate
SpanishCastleAle is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2009, 03:18 PM   #5
dragon99
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 133
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser View Post
Yes, something is not right with this report. But I wouldn't trust a report that includes puzzles anyway
Your just jealous that your water report didn't come with a puzzle and cartoon characters...

Your right however that this probably isn't the most accurate report. I will probably send a sample in and get a better report of water quality.

Quote:
So, how do I get there??? I've use BrewSmith, but still haven't figured out all of the interactions.

I typically have used FiveStar 5.2 buffer in the filtered water and just let that go.
I would recommend trying BreWater 3.0 (found here Ken Schwartz's Index of Homebrew Stuff). I've been playing with it some lately and its easy to use. Just plug in your water values and your target values. The Formulation wizard will give you amounts of salts to add.
__________________

Homer: “I’m feelin’ low, Apu. You got any of that beer that has candy floating in it, you know, Skittlebrau?”
Apu: “Such a product does not exist, sir! You must have dreamed it.”
Homer: “Oh. Well then just gimme a six-pack and a couple of bags of Skittles.”

dragon99 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-18-2009, 03:32 PM   #6
Kaiser
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Kaiser's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pepperell, MA
Posts: 3,904
Liked 115 Times on 71 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lrr81765 View Post
Sodium, Na- 30 mg/l (ppm)
Calcium, Ca- 47 mg/l (ppm)
Magnesium, 12 Mg/L
Total Hardness, CaCO3- 165 Mg/l
Nitrate, NO3-N - 1.0 (ppm)
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 78 mg/l (ppm)
Potassium, K- I don’t have this information
Manganese ug/l (ppb) - 36 ppb
Sulfate, SO4-S - (ppm) – 59 ppm
Chloride, Cl (ppm) – 47 ppm
Carbonate, CO3 - <1 ppm
Bicarbonate, HCO3 – 78 ppm
A few things don't seem right with this report. The Alkalinity as CaCO3 and the Bicarbonate have the same value (78 ppm). At normal water pH alkalinity as CaCO3 is the bicarb ppm * 50/60.

The water report is also not balanced. There are ~11% more cations (+ ions) than anions (- ions). This means some ions are missing b/c water doesn't have an electrical charge. But it is not uncommon to get an imbalanced water report as some of the ions are difficult to measure. The imbalance is less if I assume that 78ppm is the correct value for alkalinity as CaCO3.

The residual alkalinity for this water is 37 ppm as CaCO3, which seems about right for pale ales.

I don't think that you can build the water profile you are aiming for. In particular I don't know what salts to add to get to 350 ppm SO4 while keeping Ca at 100, Mg at 20 and Na at 25. I gave it a shot using my water calculation spread sheet (http://braukaiser.com/documents/water_calculator.xls) and this is the result:



Kai
__________________
BrauKaiser.com - brewing science blog - Twitter - water and mash chemistry calculator
Kaiser is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sparge Water Temperature Understanding Cougfan All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 11 04-15-2014 12:36 PM
Water Report Choguy03 General Beer Discussion 5 09-19-2009 08:15 PM
Need help understanding my water chemistry! CharlosCarlies General Techniques 3 07-19-2009 06:41 PM
help understanding these water figures , please iasquith All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 2 08-13-2008 11:13 PM
Using a water report for spring water. bearymore All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 6 04-22-2008 06:51 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS