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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Brew Science > Heady Topper video - 750 total hardness??
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Old 06-05-2014, 07:37 PM   #31
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I worked it a few different ways in the spreadsheet and this is what I arrive at using 4 gallons of distilled water for the mash:

15.4 grams calcium sulfate
1 gram calcium chloride (only because I was shooting for the 35 ppm Chloride in the screen shot)
1.2 grams Pickling Lime

Which results in:

Ca: 297
SO4: 619
Cl: 35
TH: 743
Mash pH: 5.2

I've used up to 350 ppm Sulfate in an IPA before and it was fantastic-- my best one to date. I guess other people have used more and liked it. So why not?

But here's an alternative. This is probably a bad way of doing things. I suppose the acid would start to impart flavor at some point:

8.8 grams Calcium Sulfate
0.7 grams Calcium Chloride
4.0 grams Pickling Lime
6.8ml Lactic Acid to bring mash pH down to 5.2

Resulting in:

Ca: 290
SO4: 493
Cl: 35
TH: 727
Mash pH: 5.2

Either way, if I brew this beer I will not pay attention to the hardness of 750. I'm just going to raise sulfates up to about 350 and get the pH to settle in on the lower end of things (5.2 or 5.3)

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Old 06-07-2014, 07:27 PM   #32
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I started a thread some time ago after watching that Kimmich video (http://youtu.be/LdfySDN2mF0) where he discussed mash pH. Here it is: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/mash-ph-465320/

I ended up doing two things - one easy thing and one hard thing. The hard thing I did was to brew to "identical" one gallon IPAs where the only thing that I adjusted was the mash pH. One batch had a mash pH of about 5.3 and the second had a mash pH of 5.4. My brew partner and I agreed that the 5.4 batch was the hands down favorite of the two - it wasn't even close.

The easier thing that I did was to email Kimmich about his pH recommendation - was he referencing pH at mash temperatures or at room temperatures (like most homebrewers do). He wrote back saying that his pH statements were referenced to mash temps. Therefore, is recommendations end up being in line with the homebrewers' standard of a pH of 5.4.

I'm curious though about the hardness/sulfate levels that folks are looking at here...

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Old 06-08-2014, 01:29 AM   #33
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I did about 4 batches with pH in the 5.2-5.35 range. Nope, 5.4 or higher easily lets the hops shine. Which is nice, since i won't need minute amounts of acidulated malt anymore.

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Old 06-08-2014, 05:44 AM   #34
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Agreed, Cali. The 5.4 really highlighted the hops without becoming overbearing. The 5.3 batches were just a muddled mess. There was a "brightness" there, but it was not pleasant - hard to describe. Maybe I'd describe it as a harshness. The 5.4 was really nice though.

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Old 06-08-2014, 06:51 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnagel View Post
Close. I think HopJuJu has the edge on that one. I'm not turning either down if offered. And I think I give the edge to Abrasive, Chillwave, and Permanent Funeral over Heady. IMHO

Heady over Chillwave (still like the alchemy hour name better) over hop juju (just a bit) and head hunter isn't even an honorable mention for me. Enjoy by also makes this list and white rajah IF it's FRESH. Looking for some surly and other IPAs I've yet to try.


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Old 06-08-2014, 01:06 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlinyTheMiddleAged View Post
Agreed, Cali. The 5.4 really highlighted the hops without becoming overbearing. The 5.3 batches were just a muddled mess. There was a "brightness" there, but it was not pleasant - hard to describe. Maybe I'd describe it as a harshness. The 5.4 was really nice though.
This makes me sort of nervous about something. Is there an optimal ph range for like every recipe and we should brew every recipe at like five different wort phs to find the best?
Because i am pretty sure that not every excellent beer was brewed at ph 5.4 which means that different recipes have different ph sweetspots.
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:20 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Glue View Post
This makes me sort of nervous about something. Is there an optimal ph range for like every recipe and we should brew every recipe at like five different wort phs to find the best?
Because i am pretty sure that not every excellent beer was brewed at ph 5.4 which means that different recipes have different ph sweetspots.
I don't think EVERY recipe has something totally different. But, for instance, beers with a high proportion of very acidic dark/roasted grains (stouts, porters, etc.) can benefit from a pH that is higher ..... I generally shoot for 5.5-5.7 range. Seems to round out the flavor and roastiness some.
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:48 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Glue View Post
This makes me sort of nervous about something. Is there an optimal ph range for like every recipe and we should brew every recipe at like five different wort phs to find the best?
Because i am pretty sure that not every excellent beer was brewed at ph 5.4 which means that different recipes have different ph sweetspots.
There is little doubt in my mind that each beer has its optimum pH and that yes, you should try different pH's to find it. What I am not sure of is how sharp the peak is for any individual or class of beers. Why would pH be different from any other parameter. You can make good beer with half a gram of calcium chloride per liter of water and pH adjusted to 5.5. That doesn't mean you won't get better beer with 0.3 gram CaCl2 and pH 5.6 (an at the same time it doesn't mean you will).

Our senses and the rest of nature seem to respond on a log scale. A 3 db change (doubling or halving) of a stimulus seems to be approximately what it takes to generate a clearly discernible change in perception. For a salt it is obvious what doubling or halving means. pH is already on a log scale. A change of 0.3 pH means double or half the hydrogen ion activity.
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Old 06-08-2014, 05:08 PM   #39
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Dosed a pint with gypsum. What a foamy mess... It definitely didn't make it undrinkable. What it seemed to do to me was really mute the fresher hop character and by this it made some of the fruit stuff more prevalent. I personally didn't care for it but maybe that's the secret to HT. Which brings me to point, I do not care for danky hops. I am firmly in the simcoe is cat **** camp. So I think that biases me from certain IPA's.

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Old 06-12-2014, 10:20 PM   #40
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How much did you add to your pint? What was your target sulfate level?

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