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Old 10-09-2012, 04:49 PM   #11
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That makes sense. I emailed the municapil water authority and asked for a water report to be sent to my address. However, I live in NY so it will take a few months to get. And I will have to pay all kinds of astronomical fee's..

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Old 10-09-2012, 05:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by +HopSpunge+ View Post
I googled prima pils clone, and could not find any really solid info. A few people tried to clone it but could not figure it out. But i'm not that pickey if can come up with something close I will be more than happy.
Northern Brewer offered a kit a while back that was inspired by Prima, though they did it as a hybrid with a limited release Kölsch yeast. The recipe is still up on the NB website:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-VictoriousPrimoPseudo-Pils.pdf

I never brewed it and therefore can't attest to its fidelity or lack thereof. But it can be another data point in your search for clone information.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:45 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by +HopSpunge+ View Post
That makes sense. I emailed the municapil water authority and asked for a water report to be sent to my address. However, I live in NY so it will take a few months to get. And I will have to pay all kinds of astronomical fee's..
?

http://www.cityofrochester.gov/waterquality/
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NochEineMassBitte View Post
Northern Brewer offered a kit a while back that was inspired by Prima, though they did it as a hybrid with a limited release Kölsch yeast. The recipe is still up on the NB website:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-VictoriousPrimoPseudo-Pils.pdf

I never brewed it and therefore can't attest to its fidelity or lack thereof. But it can be another data point in your search for clone information.
Prima Pils is one of my favorite beers, so I did quite a bit of research on finding the recipe. Here's everything I could find:


----------------------------------------------------------------------
From Zymurgy:
1.053, 51 IBU (all whole hops), 3 SRM, 75% eff., 90min boil
9.25lb German Pils
Double decoction w/mashout (20@122, 40@145, 20@155, 10@165F)
1oz Tradition 6% @60
1oz Tett 4.5% @30
1oz Mittelfrüh 4.5% @20
2oz Saaz 4.3% @10
German lager @50F, lager 10-13wks @35F

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From HBTer who spoke with brewery:
"The brewhouse was designed to
perform decoction mashing for continental lagers (but works great for
American and Belgian ales too) but also using whole flower hops. Its
my opinion that the wonderful aromatics evident in HopDevil and Prima
are a result of using whole hops and a hopback as well as the careful
watching of Ron and Bill. BTW, Victory is located in Downingtown,
Pa, about 35 miles west of Philly. Directions are on the web site.

Heres some pointers on making a homebrewed version of Prima Pils:

Prima is slightly higher OG than the traditional German pils, aim
for around 13P. A grist of 100% pils malt from Germany or the Czech
republic would be good. Perform a multi step mash or decoction
according to the malt specs, ie if needed. Take care to avoid oxygen
pickup during mashing and lautering. Hopping is around 50-60 BUs,
you can choose to use all noble hops if you can fit all the hops in
your kettle, or start with a higher alpha kettle hop like German
Perle or Northern Brewer and follow up with the traditional flavor
and aroma hops such as Hallertau and plenty of Saaz. Do not dry hop
pils and be sure to boil the last hop addition for at least 5-10
mins. Use a huge starter of clean lager yeast, a one gallon starter
can be allowed to complete and take the slurry from that for 5-6
gals. Oxygenate to saturation by injection/bubbling pure O2.
Ferment cool, keeping below 50F. Lager 5-6 weeks at 31F. "

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From HBT:
"I just got a clone kit from Austin Homebrew, 9.5 lbs of German Pils, and 1 oz each of Tradition, Tett, Hall, and Saaz at 60, 30, 20, 10 minutes."
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:41 PM   #15
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I think I found my water info. Online. I was looking in the wrong place. Buffalo does not test thier own water the county does it, and its an average of a bunch of places within the county. It said that the Alkalinity is 95 mg/liter. The Calcium Hardness is 93 mg/ liter. And total Dissolved solids is 153 mg/liter. Is this hard water or soft? And thanks for both the recipes. I am going to try and combine all the recipes i've read so far on the interweb into one basic one. And hopfully make a pilsner that is like prima. If I get somewhat close i will be happy.

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Old 10-09-2012, 07:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkNoH2O View Post
Prima Pils is one of my favorite beers, so I did quite a bit of research on finding the recipe. Here's everything I could find:
...

Cool, thanks for sharing! That's all great information. I might have to try brewing one of these myself soon (Prima is one of my faves, too).

HopSpunge, keep us posted. I'm curious to see how your clone attempt goes.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:03 PM   #17
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No problem at all.

When I brewed it I just used that Zymurgy recipe and skipped the decoctions as I didn't think it was worth it (I don't taste much melanoidinin in PP - you could add a little melanoidin malt without decocting if you wanted to). Used 50% distilled water and 50% of my hard local water. I also only used pellet Mittelfruh and Tettnanger as that's all I had. Came out quite tasty.

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Old 10-11-2012, 02:45 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdelange
No, a charcoal filter doesn't touch the inorganics (minerals).

I analyzed Victory's water for them back in '98 and as luck would have it it's on this machine. I found:

Water Sample - Collected 20 JUN 98

pH 6.86

Alkalinity
26 mg/L as CaCO3

Sodium - By ISE
8.3 mg/L

Magnesium Hardness
27 mg/L CaCO3
6.7 mg/L Mg2+

Calcium Hardness
51 mg/L CaCO3
20 mg/L Ca2+

Chloride

27.92 mg/L Cl- Dil X: 2.0000

Sulfate
17.6 mg/L SO4-2 Dil X: 1.0000

Total Iron
0.065 mg/L Fe

Fe(II) - Ferrous (Clear water) Iron
0.003 mg/L Fe2+ Dil X: 1.0000

Manganese

0.009 mg/L Mn Dil X: 1.0000
Note: EDL 0.005 mg/L

Copper
0.064 mg/L Cu Dil X: 1.0000

Potassium
2.25 mg/L K+

Nitrate
1.2 mg/L NO3--N

Silicate
8.9 mg/L SiO2

Nitrite
0.0047 mg/L NO2--N

Zinc
0.169 mg/L Zn Dil X: 1.0000

Don't know what, if anything, they do to their water but they wouldn't have to do anything to brew a pretty good pils (which their Pils is) from this water.


If I take values from the above water sample. And I add 20 calcium to 6.7 magnesium I get 26.7 subtract this from 26 alkalinity and I get a residual alkalinity of .7 is this correct or wrong?? If i'm wrong I am going to have to go back and hit the books.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:10 AM   #19
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You calculate RA from the hardnesses - not the ion concentrations. Thus

RA = 26 - (51 + 27/2)/3.5 = 7.5 ppm as CaCO3

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Old 10-11-2012, 03:58 AM   #20
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Ah. I understand now. I read the formula for figuring out the RA wrong. I did not divide the calcium by 3.5 and the maganesium by 7. Plus I was using the wrong ones from the report. This will help me alot in figuring out my own water and greatly improve my beer. Your wisdom and knowledge is once again appreciated.....

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