Finished beer pH

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dstar26t

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The perfectionist in me has caused an interest in the finished beer's pH. I've read low 4's to 4.5 is normal. Well, I drew samples of 4 beers I have on tap and tested them:

Pale Ale - 4.46
IPA - 4.58
Oktoberfest - 4.56
Barleywine - 4.62

They all seem to be on the higher end of what's acceptable, especially the Barleywine. I can supply more information for each recipe and process if needed. Would a higher/lower pH help bring out different flavors that would accentuate certain styles?

Nate
 
The ale yeasts have evolved to produce more acid (perhaps because the lagers have the advantage of cooler temperatures and acid in combating competition

Here are some numbers for comparison to yours

Kölsch 4.17
Pils 4.39
Fest 4.56
Kölsch 4.43
Pils 4.49
Vienna 4.58
Kölsch 4.35
Vienna 4.65
Pils 4.53
Kölsch 4.47
Pils 4.53
 
Thanks for those values AJ. Which Kolsch did you prefer and did your preference have anything to do with the pH?
 
Last two batches I brewed of a light ale shown 4.16 and 4.12, taken after fermentation was completed and before priming for bottle conditioning (FG sample).
 
Nilo, what yeast did you use and did you measure the mash or post boil pH?
 
Nilo, what yeast did you use and did you measure the mash or post boil pH?

Fermentis S04 at 67F. I'm keeping several PH records, see below.

PHBEER.JPG
 
That's awesome, thanks.
I wonder if it's more accurate to test the finished beer pH before or after carbonation?
 
I just tested my 9-day old pale ale (not even kegged yet), and it's at 4.18@70 after my mash pH was a little low at 5.20@70. Just another data pt... :)
 
<snip>
...taken after fermentation was completed and before priming for bottle conditioning (FG sample).

Is this the proper time to measure the pH of finished beer? I was just reading about this topic and was thinking about measuring the pH of the beers I have on tap here at home. But I don't know if the oft quoted range of 3.8 - 4.4 is for carbonated or un-carbonated beer.

Brian
 
I was just listening to Charlie Bamforth on a Brew Strong interview on the Brewing Network. I was surprised to hear him indicate that a finished beer pH closer to 4.5 is preferred over a finished beer pH down in the 4 range. He said that the overall stability of the beer is better at the higher pH. I did not expect that finding.
 
Well there's stability and then there's stability. I think everyone agrees that microbial stability is enhanced by lower pH. OTOH trans-2-nonenal is more effective at doing its dirty work at low pH.
 
Well there's stability and then there's stability. I think everyone agrees that microbial stability is enhanced by lower pH. OTOH trans-2-nonenal is more effective at doing its dirty work at low pH.

This is what I would have thought. I've accidentally produced higher PH beers (4.5+) that taste very dull and any decent flavours at kegging time are lost once carbonated. No specific off flavours but very dull - and lacking the charactertic "beer" sharpness.
 
I've been digging deeper into this. Mostly due to my IPAs and DIPAs changing since switching to fly sparging from batch sparging 4 years ago. I've been finding I like a pre-boil pH of no higher than 5.40 and a finished beer pH of ~4.60 (Hoppy Ales only). I was fighting a vegetal flavor I thought came from the hops and it may have been caused from a boil pH higher than 5.40. Also, a lower finished beer pH made the beer sharper while a higher pH approaching 4.70 made the malt boring. The latest IPA finished at 4.31 and I hate it. I'm going to do a bench trial with adding different amounts of a 1% w/w solution of lime/distilled to see if the flavor changes. 0.5mL increments starting at 0.5 mL into 250mL samples of beer.
 
Kegged a Doppelbock I brewed on 5/3. It was in contact with the yeast for 28 days...2 weeks at 48F (pitched at 43F), let warm to 60F then slowly chilled to 40F 2C/day. Mash pH was 5.23. I had intended for 5.4 but it turns out that Bru'n water likes to see Munich II added as a crystal vs. a base malt. Sparge water was acidified to 5.5 with Lactic and pre-boil was 5.23. I added some lime to the kettle, trying to get the pH above 5.3 but I must not have taken a pH reading or lost the data. It was probably a bad idea adding the lime, especially since also not taking a measurement. Anyway, final pH was 4.67. I did a bench trial by adding lactic to 2 samples down to 4.55 and 4.42. I preferred the 4.55 because it focused the malt flavors a little better than 4.67. I did not like 4.42, it seemed to kill the lingering malt flavor that is in the other samples. It was ~80% carbed so once it's fully carbed and I get it on tap, I'll do another trial and then decide to dose the whole batch with acid or not.
 
Kegged a Doppelbock I brewed on 5/3. It was in contact with the yeast for 28 days...2 weeks at 48F (pitched at 43F), let warm to 60F then slowly chilled to 40F 2C/day. Mash pH was 5.23. I had intended for 5.4 but it turns out that Bru'n water likes to see Munich II added as a crystal vs. a base malt. Sparge water was acidified to 5.5 with Lactic and pre-boil was 5.23. I added some lime to the kettle, trying to get the pH above 5.3 but I must not have taken a pH reading or lost the data. It was probably a bad idea adding the lime, especially since also not taking a measurement. Anyway, final pH was 4.67. I did a bench trial by adding lactic to 2 samples down to 4.55 and 4.42. I preferred the 4.55 because it focused the malt flavors a little better than 4.67. I did not like 4.42, it seemed to kill the lingering malt flavor that is in the other samples. It was ~80% carbed so once it's fully carbed and I get it on tap, I'll do another trial and then decide to dose the whole batch with acid or not.

What did you decide to do with the beer?
 
I left it as is. It was for a party along with 4 other beers and I didn't take the time to do the second bench trial. I have about 1.5 gallons left that I can still fine tune for competitions.
 
I just got my Hach pocket pro+ and thought I'd so some tests on a stout I made with chocolate and coffee.

There's cocoa powder and coffee at flame out.
cocoa nibs and cold brew coffee before the keg.

Normally its at Ph 4.78 @ 13C
I had some lactic acid and a few 50ml samples.

at 4.78@13c the dark chocolate nibs flavor is the most apparent not much roast (for a stout) or coffee. Pretty smooth and creamy.
at 4.50@13c the coffee and roast jump out at you and the carbonation seems more prickly.
at 4.30@13c it was way too tart, I don't know if that was because it was beyond the lactic acid flavor threshold or if it was just what it tasted like at that ph.
 
at 4.78@13c the dark chocolate nibs flavor is the most apparent not much roast (for a stout) or coffee. Pretty smooth and creamy.
at 4.50@13c the coffee and roast jump out at you and the carbonation seems more prickly.
at 4.30@13c it was way too tart, I don't know if that was because it was beyond the lactic acid flavor threshold or if it was just what it tasted like at that ph.

Thanks for posting this up, Stat. What you're describing is exactly what I'm tasting at the 4.30 mark in my latest stout (very tart with no roast)..

Your description of the 4.50 mark is par with my coffee porter also.. My porter finished at 4.55.
 
I've used a Calcium Hydroxide and distilled water solution before. I forget the concentration and amounts. I'll look at my notes tonight.
 
The solution was 100:1 water to Ca(OH)2 (1 gram in 99 mL). It doesn't stay in solution 100% so you have to swirl it before pulling a sample. I used 0.5 mL increments in 250 mL of beer. The beer was terribly tannic/astringent (session IPA). Raising the pH from 4.31 to 4.50 helped slightly but it was still bad. Going up to 4.63 didn't have a noticeable positive change.

initial pH = 4.31
0.5 mL Calcium Hydroxide solution added = 4.32
1.0 = 4.35
1.5 = 4.36
2.0 = 4.40
2.5 = 4.44
3.0 = 4.46
3.5 = 4.46
4.0 = 4.50
4.5 = 4.56
5.0 = 4.59
5.5 = 4.59
6.0 = 4.63
 
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