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shanecb · 08-10-2011, 05:07 PM

I love the new calculator, thanks a lot! It's very easy to use.

I have one question, and I know it's a little off-topic for the thread, so I can post a new one if need be.

I'm calculating my water for a fairly dark Russian Imperial Stout. There is 9.5lbs grain, with 2lb being dark roast malt (for a 2.5gal batch). With everything inputted, I get a mash pH calculation of 5.39, which is fairly fine. My residual alkalinity is calculated out as only 11.

To me, shouldn't my mash pH probably be lower since I have fairly low residual alkalinity? Also, if my pH is in a fine range with such low RA, what would be my point of boosting the RA up to, say, 150 for the beer (which is in the range Palmer recommends for dark beers)?

Sorry if it's too off-topic, I was just playing around with the spreadsheet and the question came up.

CPooley4 · 08-11-2011, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -TH-

Hey Cory,
Sorry I didn't get back to your PM. I'll respond here instead...

You are correct. As AJ says in the above post (and I'm paraphrasing), the KISS method actually works quite well here.

I did my own linear regression on his crystal data. His test result of c60 was a bit of an outlier.

I've been using 3.0 for a few months now and I use Northern Brewer's printed catalog to find what catagory a malt falls into, i.e. base, caramel, or roasted/toasted. You could also use their website: http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/brewing-ingredients/grain-malts (categories are listed in box on left). This has worked very well for me. Obviously I would love to lab-test every malt from every maltster, but until then...

No problem. Thanks. Have at it! Great!

Thanks TH, really helpful.

Just so I understand - Aromatic you would consider a crystal malt and since it is a 20L malt you'd essentially be using the same pH value at crystal 20 correct? Same thing with Victory being classified as a roasted/toasted, meaning you're not adjusting the pH even though the lovibond is much lower than say Chocolate malt etc...?

Thanks again.

**bsdx** · 08-12-2011, 12:12 AM

I thought aromatic malt was very similar to munich

-TH- · 08-12-2011, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanecb

I love the new calculator, thanks a lot! It's very easy to use.

I have one question, and I know it's a little off-topic for the thread, so I can post a new one if need be.

I'm calculating my water for a fairly dark Russian Imperial Stout. There is 9.5lbs grain, with 2lb being dark roast malt (for a 2.5gal batch). With everything inputted, I get a mash pH calculation of 5.39, which is fairly fine. My residual alkalinity is calculated out as only 11.

To me, shouldn't my mash pH probably be lower since I have fairly low residual alkalinity? Also, if my pH is in a fine range with such low RA, what would be my point of boosting the RA up to, say, 150 for the beer (which is in the range Palmer recommends for dark beers)?

Sorry if it's too off-topic, I was just playing around with the spreadsheet and the question came up.

Experimental data seems to indicate that mash pH is not as low for dark beers as Palmer's spreasheet and nomograph predict. That is one of the reasons why I moved away from his formulae with each version of EZ.

So to answer your question, IMO there is no point in boosting your RA up.

**ajdelange** · 08-12-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanecb

Also, if my pH is in a fine range with such low RA, what would be my point of boosting the RA up to, say, 150 for the beer (which is in the range Palmer recommends for dark beers)?

The fact that you asked this question means that you already understand, at least partially, the problem with requiring a particular RA for a beer with a given color. It would be best to forget that you ever heard about a relationship between beer color and RA. Yes, brewers with alkaline waters tended to brew dark beers but the relationship between color and alkalinity isn't nearly robust enough that one can speak of a required or recommended RA for a particular SRM.

-TH- · 08-12-2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPooley4

Thanks TH, really helpful.

Just so I understand - Aromatic you would consider a crystal malt and since it is a 20L malt you'd essentially be using the same pH value at crystal 20 correct? Same thing with Victory being classified as a roasted/toasted, meaning you're not adjusting the pH even though the lovibond is much lower than say Chocolate malt etc...?

Thanks again.

For now, yes. I would love to expand my emperical data of DI mash ph's of specific malts like aromatic, etc. (do I have any volunteers???) but I just couldn't wait any longer to release 3.0 with what I had since I felt it was already such an improvement over 2.0.

CPooley4 · 08-12-2011, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -TH-

For now, yes. I would love to expand my emperical data of DI mash ph's of specific malts like aromatic, etc. (do I have any volunteers???) but I just couldn't wait any longer to release 3.0 with what I had since I felt it was already such an improvement over 2.0.

Sounds good.

I personally do not have a pH meter at this time so wouldn't be of much help to you yet. Have just been using ajdelange's recommendations along with your spreadsheet to track each of my beers. Has been working really well so far.

I am incorporating a more extensive list of malt choices into your spreadsheet (have to do it this way to fully automate my brew workbook with your calculator). Once I'm finished I'll send you a copy. Will be giving each malt it's own di pH value. Can be updated as more data arrives, but for now I'll be utilizing the link you provided at northern brewer to come up with the values. Hoping to have it completed in the relatively near future. Just have to find the time.

cp

shanecb · 08-12-2011, 02:48 PM

Thanks for the reply from both of you. I sort of assumed that was the case with the results I was getting. I guess it wasn't so much the color per se I was assuming there would be a relationship with, but the amount of roasted grains. It always seemed to me that with low alkalinity water, the amount of dark grains I'm using would push the pH too low, but that appears to not be the case.

Thanks!

**ajdelange** · 08-12-2011, 04:20 PM

It is true that dark grains will pull low alkalinity water lower in pH than they will high alkalinity water but not all dark grains have the same acidity and thus in some cases you might undershoot and need alkali (or to use less dark grains) but in other cases you will be able to use as much or more dark grains without undershooting.

**AScott** · 08-12-2011, 04:42 PM

This may be a dumb question and feel free to tell me if it is, but how does one account for adjunct grains like flaked oats and flaked barley in the spreadsheet?

Do they matter at all? Without putting them in the grain bill section the mash thickness is off and the weight of the grain is off, as well.

I've done a search, but I'm just not finding the answer. Perhaps my search-fu is not strong enough.