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Old 03-07-2011, 09:20 PM   #1
VikeMan
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Default EZ Water Calculator 2.0 and Batch Size

What assumptions does 2.0 make about batch size? What I mean is... let's say you specify an SRM of 7, along with 8 pounds of grain, 1 pound of which is crystal, and 3 gallons of mash water. I know you also specify 'sparge' water volume, but even that doesn't tell you the final batch size, and thus the volume in which the specified grain is producing the 4 SRMs.

What I'm getting at is... I could have two batches with identical mashes, but different SRMs depending on final batch size (i.e. how much 'sparge' water and how much is boiled away). The difference in SRMs (which in this case has nothing to do with the mashes) produces different estimated mash pH in the sheet, but we already know the mashes are identical.

So again...what assumptions are made about batch size? TIA!

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Old 03-07-2011, 10:16 PM   #2
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You might want to try out Bru'n Water. It includes exactly those factors in assessing the mash performance. Download it from the link below.

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Old 03-08-2011, 12:33 AM   #3
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I have a similiar question. I do fly sparge so I mash with about 5gals of water, collect only 4.5 gals of wort as I fly sparge (only 4.5gals because I try not to get very low gravity runnings to avoid tanin extraction). I then top that 4.5gal with 1/2gals of water to build my pre-boil volume of 5gals. What do I enter as mash volume and sparge volume, 4.5 and 1/2 gal?

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Old 03-08-2011, 01:38 AM   #4
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I haven't worked with EZ water, but the pH prediction is based on my work and my water spreadsheet uses a similar if not the same formula.

Don't sweat the batch size. The model that led to this formula used a batch size of 5 gal and a grist weight of 10lb with varying mash thicknesses. Despite these batch assumption it seems to work well across a wide range of original gravities.

I'm currently reviewing a number of difference methods for mash pH prediction and in many cases the SRM based mash pH prediction is better than a grist based mash pH prediction even though it was derived from the latter.

Kai

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Old 03-08-2011, 01:39 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilo View Post
I have a similiar question. I do fly sparge so I mash with about 5gals of water, collect only 4.5 gals of wort as I fly sparge (only 4.5gals because I try not to get very low gravity runnings to avoid tanin extraction). I then top that 4.5gal with 1/2gals of water to build my pre-boil volume of 5gals. What do I enter as mash volume and sparge volume, 4.5 and 1/2 gal?
The mash volume is the volume of water in the mash, which I believe you did not give.
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Old 03-08-2011, 02:39 AM   #6
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I did, 5gals

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Old 03-08-2011, 10:06 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser View Post
I haven't worked with EZ water, but the pH prediction is based on my work and my water spreadsheet uses a similar if not the same formula.
Thanks Kai. Do you know if the grist folmulae in Bru'n Water are also based on your work? TIA!

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Old 03-08-2011, 02:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VikeMan View Post
Thanks Kai. Do you know if the grist folmulae in Bru'n Water are also based on your work? TIA!
Martin will be the better person to ask this. But after looking into how the mash pH is calculated I think it’s only using the malt color to acidity relations that I found. It’s not taking mash thickness into account like I proposed in my paper or like it is now done in my updated water spreadsheet. Except through their acid contribution the amount of malt doesn’t affect mash pH. But based on my experiments, that is not true.

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Old 03-08-2011, 02:23 PM   #9
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Bru'n Water does use Kai's experimental findings to estimate the total acidity provided by the grist. It also uses the volume of mash water to estimate the total alkalinity provided by the water. From that key interplay of acidity and alkalinity, a correlation can be made with mash pH.

pH is a measurement of the amount of hydrogen protons that are dissociated in the water. Alkalinity consumes (neutralizes) those protons, so Bru'n Water's approach to solving for mash pH is strongly founded in the science.

Because the mash water volume is a direct input, mash thickness is a direct variable that is properly accounted for in Bru'n Water. By varying the volume of mash water (especially if that water is fairly alkaline), you can actually see the effect of mash thickness upon mash pH.

Enjoy the program.
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