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Old 10-22-2009, 09:33 PM   #91
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Quick question after playing with the numbers and attempting to adjust Seattle's water, which, again, is like Pilsen. It is impossible to bring RA high enough for dark beers and have calcium or sodium in the recommended guidelines. Chalk raises calcium and Baking soda raises sodium. So my question is, should I just get it close enough and adjust with 5.2? I assume RA is related to ideal PH of the mash, correct? THEN, I can focus my salts on the balance of malt and bitter.

If you couldn't make dark beers with your water, would you get it close and adjust with 5.2 and simply play with Chloride to sulfite ratio? (the quick question).

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Old 10-22-2009, 11:57 PM   #92
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Post your water stats.

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Old 10-23-2009, 01:57 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
Post your water stats.
Seattle, WA

Calcium(Ca): 17.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 1.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 4.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 2.0 ppm
Bicarbonate(HCO3): 18.0 ppm
PH: 7.8 PH

Notes
Seattle. Relatively soft water with low mineral content.
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:44 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmo88 View Post
Seattle, WA

Calcium(Ca): 17.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 1.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 4.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 2.0 ppm
Bicarbonate(HCO3): 18.0 ppm
PH: 7.8 PH

Notes
Seattle. Relatively soft water with low mineral content.

Well, if you add 1 gram of chalk and 1.5 grams of baking soda per gallon of mash water, you can get your RA up to 292 (best for 29-34 SRM beer colors) and still keep your Na and Ca in the recommended ranges. Not sure you need to worry about getting the RA value any higher than that.

What is your Chloride value?
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Old 10-23-2009, 05:22 AM   #95
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Chloride is 4ppm. So the chloride to sulfate ratio will then dictate the perception of malt or hops. It's starting to clear up for me. So as long as my RA is in range for my SRM I should hit close to 5.2, correct? I understand it as this:

1. Have all ions in recommended ranges if possible
2. Create appropriate RA for SRM to achieve close to 5.2 mash pH
3. Alter the ratio of Chloride to Sulfate to bring out the style and flavor profile.

right???

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Old 10-23-2009, 02:17 PM   #96
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I'd rather er on the side of a lower RA because I think missing the pH on the high side is worse than on the low side. Try the following... per gallon of water. Of course, you can reduce the overall sodium by skipping the baking soda addition to the boil kettle.

Starting Water:
Ca: 17 ppm
Mg: 1 ppm
Na: 4 ppm
Cl: 4 ppm
SO4: 2 ppm
HCO3: 18 ppm

Mash Vol: 1 gal
Dilution Rate: 0%

Adjustments:
CaCO3: 0.75 grams
CaSO4: 0 grams
CaCl2: 0.25 grams
MgSO4: 0.5 grams
NaHCO3: 1 grams
NaCl: 0 grams
HCL Acid: 0 ml
Lactic Acid: 0 ml

Results:
Ca: 114 ppm
Mg: 13 ppm
Na: 76 ppm
Cl: 36 ppm
SO4: 54 ppm
CaCO3: 269 ppm

RA: 180 (20 to 25 SRM)
Cl to SO4: 0.67 (Bitter)

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Old 10-23-2009, 03:10 PM   #97
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Thanks. With every post this is getting clearer. For the kettle additions, I want the water profile to be adjusted in the same way except for Calcium, right?

1. Do everything you listed above for the mash.
2. Add all salts in sane amounts/gl for additional water to kettle except calcium. Make up for the calcium with baking soda.

Is this what you mean?

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Old 10-23-2009, 05:47 PM   #98
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No, I'm saying you'd do the same "per gallon" additions to the boil kettle except do not add baking soda. There's no reason I can think of to use baking soda in the boil if your sodium is already high enough and the HCO3 is for mash pH.

Apparently 1gram of NaHCO3 adds 72ppm of sodium in one gallon. Let's say you mash with 4gallons and sparge another 4 gallons for a preboil of 8 gallons. If you add 4 grams of NaHCO3 to the mash, you have 72ppm sodium. If you leave it out of the boil addition, the sodium effectively halves to 36ppm.

I can't think of a way that TH could facilitate that kind of flexibility without also making the spreadsheet obnoxiously complicated.

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Last edited by Bobby_M; 10-23-2009 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 10-23-2009, 06:35 PM   #99
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Understood. I am thinking the Calcium addition should also be left out of the boil since it can only be dissolved in the mash. It would be a useless addition and precipitate out anyway.

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Old 10-23-2009, 08:08 PM   #100
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It will dissolve in the wort too. From what I understand, it won't dissolve in basic water usually with a pH of 8 or higher. The mash is acidic enough and so is wort.

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