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Old 08-25-2013, 11:10 PM   #11
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Oh, and I almost forgot to add that the ethanol seemed to have isomerized the alpha acids, because my hop extract was extremely bitter. No boil necessary.
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This is probably not from isomerized alpha acids, but more likely from polyphenols in the hops. These taste bitter and can contribute to the perceived bitterness of a beer (beyond what the IBUs suggest - they don't count towards IBU #'s) The polyphenol levels vary from hop to hop, some add can add quite an extra "bitterness" when you dry hop with them.
I would think that since humulone is soluble in ethanol, you'd have very high concentrations of preisonerized humulone and other alpha acids. They, too, are very bitter like iso-alpha acids.
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:11 PM   #12
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Chew on some hops that haven't been boiled. They're pretty bitter, man.

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Old 08-27-2013, 12:44 AM   #13
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I've heard ethanol is capable of isomerizing some alpha acids (from a biochemist phd I know). But I have no way of testing whether or not they were isomerized.

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Old 08-27-2013, 09:20 PM   #14
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Could you use NO2 as an extraction method? I know you can make Green Dragon this way, and it has been used quite long time in perfume industry and in molecular gastro/mixology. I have used it to infuse spice and herb flavours to different liqueors for some time now.

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Old 08-27-2013, 10:34 PM   #15
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NO2? Nitrogen dioxide? I have no access to it, but it doesn't seem like it would be used for food grade extractions, I wouldn't think.

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Old 08-28-2013, 12:18 AM   #16
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The commercial producers of extracts use liquid CO2, if it hasn't been mentioned yet.

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Old 08-28-2013, 03:42 PM   #17
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I think raestlyn means N20. More and more upscale bars are using whipped cream dispensers to make fast herb infusions (pressurized extractions) for mixed drinks. It is on my to do list with hops for a fast "dry" hop

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Old 08-29-2013, 12:09 PM   #18
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I gotcha. I gotcha. Sorry about that. By the way, I have not had time to try this experiment yet, with the semester starting and going nuts and all. I will get around to it before long, though. I will definitely shorten my extraction time, however.

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Old 08-29-2013, 02:52 PM   #19
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I've messed with this a little bit with some success. Ethanol is a good solvent for alpha acids, but so is cooking oil. And 212F is good for isomerization, but 350F is really good! Sauteing hop pellets in cooking oil is a great way to extract and isomerize the alpha acids! The whole lot went into the boil kettle! I simply added some lecithin (equal volume) to emulsify the oil and had no problems with head retention.
Wow, that's an awesome idea. How long did you cook them? Did you still do a full 60 minute boil?
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Old 08-29-2013, 03:32 PM   #20
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Wow, that's an awesome idea. How long did you cook them? Did you still do a full 60 minute boil?
I cooked them until they looked done Actually only half joking. I think it was around 10 min. tops. The oil was VERY bitter!

I just did a 20 min. boil - that was my reason to do this - reduce the boil time. This was for an all grain pale ale. Turned out OK. I suspect a longer boil might have helped some of the other flavors though


Hmmm. I have a Coopers kit someone gave me. Maybe I'll just do a quick extract batch (no specialty grains) and saute up some hops and add that to the mix (with the lecithin). I'll even do it as per the kit instructions which is NO BOIL. Maybe I'll dry hop it with some vodka soaked hops too. I'll skip the provided yeast and use something else though.
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