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HollisBT · 12-12-2012, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryno1ryno

First part yes. Second part... huh?

I have no idea what isothermal mash is

Essentially... how important is steeping at lower temps and then changing temps. If there is a quick and dirty answer then I'm happy. I do like the material and I believe I get it now... but it never hurts to be lazy and have someone else tell me what they think.

The quick and dirty answer was in the very first reply to the thread...

**Airborneguy** · 12-12-2012, 12:50 PM

I just went to a car forum and asked them to prove to me that cars run on gas. Of course, opinions will not be accepted because we know everyone has one on that topic.

Kaiser · 12-12-2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryno1ryno

First part yes. Second part... huh?

I have no idea what isothermal mash is

I threw that in as a fancy word for single infusion mashing

I.e. a mash that rests at only one temperature.

Quote:

Essentially... how important is steeping at lower temps and then changing temps. If there is a quick and dirty answer then I'm happy. I do like the material and I believe I get it now... but it never hurts to be lazy and have someone else tell me what they think.

All that *needs* to be done to make beer is to convert starches into sugars, and that can be done at one single temperature. But in some cases it is beneficial to rest the mash at different temperatures to promote different groups of enzymes and thus conversion reactions. This depends on the grist your are using and certain quality parameters in the wort that you are looking for. This is also where there is lots of debate in home brewing. Just search for "step mashing vs. single infusion" or "decoction mashing vs. single infusion" and sift through the many opinions that brewers have.

Kai

Pilgarlic · 12-12-2012, 04:08 PM

I didn't interpret the OP as stating an opinion. He wasn't denying the relationship between temps and enzymes, he was asking where he could find the science. True, he could easily have found the information elsewhere, but I really don't see anything intrinsically wrong about asking brew scientists about brew science, even if it's a very basic question. I have from time to time posted questions and added "I'm not looking for simple reiterations of what is heard again and again in the echo chamber, I'm looking for peer reviewed research". I may be wrong, but that's all I read in the O.P.'s question.

jerrodm · 12-12-2012, 04:17 PM

OK, but there's a point to be made here. With something as well-accepted as "mashing requires maintaining temp within a certain range in order to effect starch conversion", to start it off as the basis of a discussion and then prevail upon people NOT to refer to their own "opinions", seems a little silly. My next thread is going to be entitled, "What proof is there that yeast make alcohol?" And, please, no opinions.

Edit: included the NOT, without which the sentence didn't make any sense!

Pilgarlic · 12-12-2012, 04:39 PM

If the point is his post "seems a little silly", for what it's worth, granted.

jerrodm · 12-12-2012, 05:29 PM

Not just a little silly, but actually inappropriate. These are discussion forums for homebrewers, where discussion, including of personal experience and, yes, opinions, is the whole point. I'm for questioning unexamined "received wisdom" practices as much as anyone else. But to cut short discussion of any evidence other than "studies" on a discussion board forum goes a little beyond silly to me. If OP wants scientific studies about brewing science, subscribe to the JIB. If he wants input from other homebrewers, which is what this site is about, he might have to deign to listening to some personal experiences and, gasp, even opinions.

I know, I shuddered too when I typed it.

Pilgarlic · 12-12-2012, 06:17 PM

Good point. Let's make sure the O.P. understands it:

OP: Don't ask that sort of thing in that way around here or all Hell will break loose. There are rules that are very clear to those who know better than you. Be careful. Okay?

ryno1ryno · 12-12-2012, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiser

I threw that in as a fancy word for single infusion mashing

I.e. a mash that rests at only one temperature.

All that *needs* to be done to make beer is to convert starches into sugars, and that can be done at one single temperature. But in some cases it is beneficial to rest the mash at different temperatures to promote different groups of enzymes and thus conversion reactions. This depends on the grist your are using and certain quality parameters in the wort that you are looking for. This is also where there is lots of debate in home brewing. Just search for "step mashing vs. single infusion" or "decoction mashing vs. single infusion" and sift through the many opinions that brewers have.

Kai

You that are offended need to take the approach from this gentlemen quoted. He has proven to be the smartest guy on this thread. And I respect him more than the rest who ONLY have opinions.

**Coog_Brew** · 12-12-2012, 06:49 PM

Looking back at ryno's threads it appears he hasn't taken the time to research anything on his own. I expect a lot more threads like these.