mcberry

Recipes 

Just curious as to why I always hear 5.2 as the gold standard for pH? Is this just a minimum value that shouldn't be crossed? Despite it apparently not working quite often why does 5 Star attempt to lock in pH at 5.2? Do different styles require different pH?

Secondly, when using a meter how long does it take for a mash to get to its pH level? That is should it be checked to determine if acid malt or salts need to be added to optimize pH?

ajdelange

Recipes 

We don't know how much better his light colored beers could be if he controlled the pH for them too. He is implying that he does not do that. He can brew light beers with the water he has but I can promise him improvement if he uses some acid. It's in the light, delicate beers that it really pays off.

But given #7 and #10 I think we should go back to OP and ask why he didn't like his stouts and what does he want them to be like. Is it like the BJCP description or does he not like the traditional flavor?

mcberry

Recipes 

As I reflect on it a bit I realize that stout failures were early in my all grain days. I fermented too warm, didn't make liquid yeast starters, rehydrate dry yeast, etc. It is quite possible that my improved technique and experience will help a bit. Flavor wise I recall a slight almost metallic taste, but I could be describing that poorly. Recently I have had good success with belgians and pale ales, but perhaps the true independent variable is my process and not my water.

ajdelange

Recipes 

Brewing is a very complicated process in which there are so many things to remember that people need to have benchmarks. There is no ideal pH - the values we choose represent compromises between things like protein degradation, starch conversion, hops utilization, good kettle break etc. The oft cited 5.4 - 5.6 range, measured at room temperature, seems to produce beers that most people like. Since mash pH falls back about 0.005 unit per degree C at 60 °C (140) that 5.4 - 5.6 range would correspond to 5.2 - 5.4 and that's where I think the 5.2 comes from.

I think that's simply because most people have heard that 5.2 is the optimum pH IOW it's marketing.

I say "no" because I think the 5.4 - 5.6 represents a good compromise. But if you look at the British literature and the German literature I think you'll see that the Germans tend to stay at the higher end of that range and the Brits at the lower. I'm always advocating varying things to see if it improves your beer and pH is no exception.

As #7 and my response in #10 suggest tastes are variable. Some people might not like beers brewed with "proper" pH. That's the great thing about home brewing. You can brew it any way you like.

That depends on what form the acid is in. With bottled mineral or organic acid the pH stabilizes quite quickly. If sauermalz (acidified malt) is used it can take quite a while.

After you have endured paying for a meter and have calibrated it it takes very little effort to make a reading. For that reason I advocate frequent readings throughout (and beyond) the brew day. At dough in, 15, 20, 25 minutes thereafter if sauermalz is used, at the end of every temperature step, at the beginning and end of the boil (or in the fermenter), 12 hours after pitching, and final packaged beer pH should all be recorded. If you have these pH "milestones" recorded they can be of great value in helping you to assess how subsequent batches of the same beer are going.

mabrungard

Recipes 

Use caution here. Guinness Dry Stout is post acidified with an addition of soured beer. This has been confirmed and reported by Charlie Papazian a few years ago.

As far as I know, Guinness targets a relatively normal mash pH range as AJ has highlighted. Allowing the mash pH to drop into the 5.2 range or lower increases the fermentability of the wort and reduces body, so avoid an acidic grist to send your mash pH too low.

__________________
Martin Brungard, P.E. D.WRE
Carmel, IN
BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)
Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/