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Old 04-14-2009, 11:06 PM   #11
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As far as lab equipment goes my other hobby is chemistry so I have beakers, flasks, a heating mantle, distillation apparatus, thermometers, graduated cylinders and a microscope (800x).
..Sweet!..
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Old 04-15-2009, 02:21 PM   #12
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Not that I know all that much about yeast genetics, but just from my general biology background, aren't there other contributers to selecting yeast strains? IOW, some yeast cells within a strain may have or develop better resistance to alcohol or exhibit various levels of ester production, regardless of their reproduction. Each individual brewhouse may, over time, affect a yeast strain due to wort chemistry (lauter techniques, etc.), aeration techniques, etc.
Tis true. My point about sex is that without it you are starting with a single isolate and hoping for that one to mutate over time in the manner desired. After sex, there will be boatloads of unique individuals to go through the process - or in other words, much better odds.
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Old 04-16-2009, 06:53 PM   #13
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Let’s have this discussion 50 years from now when gene technology is able to compile and synthesize DNA just like we write computer programs now. Then you put this DNA into a nucleous free yeast cell and “boot” it up. Powerful and scary, isn’t it.

I think I have created a unique strain. I do have a Weissbier yeast that stems from the WLP351 that seems to be able to ferment more types of sugars than other ale or lager yeasts. It consistently has a higher limit of attenuation in the fast ferment test. But it has a very poor head retention.

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Old 04-16-2009, 08:08 PM   #14
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It would be a fairly simple thing to select for alcohol resistant mutants. As mentioned all one need do is to throw a large thriving population into a high alcohol enviroment (within limits, that phospholipid membrane is not going to survive a plunge into 50% ethanol). It will even work faster if you introduce a mutagen like radiation (for that homebrewer that would be UV - I doubt a lot of people have access to beta or gamma sources).

The problem is now you have a population of high EtOH tolerant mutants, you have to select out the ones that make tasty beer vs. unpalatable bubblegum flavoured cough medicine. That will take time.

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Old 04-16-2009, 08:39 PM   #15
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Let’s have this discussion 50 years from now when gene technology is able to compile and synthesize DNA just like we write computer programs now. Then you put this DNA into a nucleous free yeast cell and “boot” it up. Powerful and scary, isn’t it.
I'll probably be pretty close to death by then. I think if we got you and Yuri together, you could make a time machine... and post the construction of it in the DIY forum.

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I think I have created a unique strain. I do have a Weissbier yeast that stems from the WLP351 that seems to be able to ferment more types of sugars than other ale or lager yeasts. It consistently has a higher limit of attenuation in the fast ferment test. But it has a very poor head retention.

Kai
Have you tried an experiment in which you use your strain and a fresh vial of WLP351 to see if there are any differences?

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I doubt a lot of people have access to beta or gamma sources.
That's easy... get a crap load of smoke detectors and take the Americium out of them... but getting mutants would probably only work in comic books.
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:13 AM   #16
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yeast are not sexual, they reproduce asexually, pjj2ba- but i like your comment!

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Old 04-17-2009, 02:49 PM   #17
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yeast are not sexual, they reproduce asexually, pjj2ba- but i like your comment!
au contraire, yeast most certainly have sex. Yes the bulk of reproduction is asexual via budding, but given the chance when approach by a member of the opposite mating type they certainly wil have "sex"

Wikipedia-Yeast_mating
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Old 04-17-2009, 02:57 PM   #18
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[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Let’s have this discussion 50 years from now when gene technology is able to compile and synthesize DNA just like we write computer programs now. Then you put this DNA into a nucleous free yeast cell and “boot” it up. Powerful and scary, isn’t it.
Actually, in some respects, sooner than you think! The sticking point right now is knowing what genes, or multiple genes yield the desired phenotype. Once you have that, then heck, I could engineer the little buggers. I believe there has been some success in engineering multistep pathways in bacteria, maybe even yeast. There are machines know that can synthesize whole genes from scratch. Actually, now that I think of it I believe they have been able to synthesize from scratch (lab made DNA only) a funtional minimal gene set organism (microbe)
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Old 04-19-2009, 10:22 PM   #19
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PJ, have you read anything about gTME (global transcription machinery engineering)? I recently did a presentation on yeast, and found a great article about S.cerevisiae and creating a mutant with a higher tolerance for EtoH AND glucose (a point I think many people forget). I can send you the link if your interested.

And, yes if only "manufacturing" DNA were cheap and accessible we'd have super-strength yeast and most likely not be in the energy crisis were in now as well! However, I did attend a microbial sciences symposium at Harvard University yesterday, and we may be closer to that than originally thought!

Also, as for the "sex" argument, they do have sex, albeit bacterial sex, which agreeably hardly constitutes as what most people define sex as...

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Old 04-19-2009, 10:52 PM   #20
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Hey PJ, have you read about gTME (Global Transcription Machinery Engineering) at all? There are some great articles out there, with specific regard to S.cerevisiae, and engineering a more EtoH AND glucose tolerant yeast, I recently presented on said topic and have the link to the article if you're interested.

That being said, I think selecting for an ethanol tolerant yeast alone might not be sufficient, as yeast is just as often not tolerant to high glucose levels also. Again, this type of selective breeding is time consuming, though not NEARLY as time consuming as selective breeding in other eukaryotic organisms.

As far as the DNA manufacturing goes, I attended the Microbial Sciences Symposium at Harvard University yesterday, and it might not be as far off as one would assume!

And finally, yes yeast have "sex" albiet bacterial sex, genomic information is swapped, even if it's mechanisms aren't as exciting at those in humans!

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