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Old 10-12-2010, 07:17 PM   #1
Bowtiebrewery
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Default Can someone check my calculations for me?

Hey guys I'll be brewing Denny's BVIP this weekend and want to make sure I have my water measurements and adjustments correct... I've been using Palmers Residual alkalinity chart to get my additions but wanted some more experienced guys to check my numbers:

Here is my water

Ca: 13.5
Mg: 2.7
Na: 15
SO4: 26.4
Cl: 26.6
HCO3: 16

I am going for a london profile but adjusted based on what palmers spreadsheet says:

According to Palmer for 12 Gallons of My water my adjustments are:

7 Grams of Chalk
1 Gram of Gypsum
1 Gram of Calcium Chloride
3 Grams of Epsom Salt
2 Grams of Baking Soda
2 Gramas of Canning Salt

Giving me an adjusted Chemistry of

Ca: 86ppm
Mg: 6ppm
Na: 44ppm
SO4: 64ppm
Cl: 64ppm
HCO3: 118

According to the RA chart from Palmer I will have
Effective hardness of 65
Residual Alkalinity of 53
Balanced Chloride to Sulfate ratio

I'm not adding any acids or any Distilled Water

Thanks guys

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Old 10-12-2010, 10:28 PM   #2
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That doesn't look right to me. You shouldn't be adding chalk and baking soda (which raise RA) when you're adding the other stuff that lowers it. Your water looks pretty good, so you shouldn't have to add too much of anything. In general, water additions should be kept to a bare minimum.

How much mash and sparge water? What does your grain bill look like? What's the SRM target?

I'll gladly plug them into EZ Water for you, but you can download the spreadsheet for free. There are links to it in one of the sticky threads on this board.

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Old 10-13-2010, 04:28 PM   #3
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You definitely do not want to add the chalk and baking soda. It is likely that your mash pH will be too high without them and adding them will only raise it higher with a definite detrimental effect on the beer.

This spreadsheet does not calculate alkalinity (and, thus, residual alkalinity) properly accounting for only one half. Besides which the chalk will not dissolve and may very well carry over into the beer rendering it chalky tasting (no surprise there). You might want to look at the sticky at the top of the page.

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Old 10-13-2010, 04:47 PM   #4
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Hey guys thanks for the replies... I re-read palmers RA and Water Chemistry sections again... I calculated completely wrong based on the recipe...

Although my porter has a SRM of 40.1 I decided that I will be calculating for 30 since this is inside the realm of measuring for his RA Chart here are the revised aditions:

Still its a ton of additions for 11 gallons... my profile is so soft that going this hard takes a lot...

14 grams of Chalk and 12 Grams of Baking Soda... This gives me an effective hardness of 107, a RA of 245, and a range of Est SRM of 25-30 while still maintaining a balanced Chloride to Sulfate ratio... This also gives me a Base malt mash PH of around 6-6.1ph...

Sound right now?

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Old 10-13-2010, 06:31 PM   #5
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No, you're going in the wrong direction. You don't want any chalk or bicarbonate and you have even more in this new formulation.

If you only added only the bicarbonate you would have alkalinity of 185 and RA of 174. If you add the carbonate too without adding acid to dissolve it technically your alkalinity and RA both increase by 383 to, respectively, 568 and 557. If you dissolve the CaCO3 with carbonic acid then you would have an alkalinity of 515 and an RA of 407. These are insane numbers for a London ale - actually for any beer.

Color really has very little if anything to do with this.

You do not want a mash pH anywhere like 6 and assuming Kolbach's number is applicable here it would be more like 6.5 (remember that the spreadsheet you are using does not account for carbonate properly).

You may want to look at the sticky at the top of the Brew Science main page.

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Old 10-13-2010, 06:39 PM   #6
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Again, I suggest downloading a free copy of the EZ Water spreadsheet. It allows you to input your water, grain bill, mash and sparge water, etc. and then play with the additions. My water is pretty soft, but not quite as soft as yours. When I make porters and stouts I have to do little if anything. One thing I absolutely try to do is avoid chalk. It doesn't dissolve in water and the chemistry pretty complicated.

Have you considered just using a pH stabilizer? The KISS principle strongly applies to water manipulation unless you're a chemist and really understand buffering.

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Old 10-13-2010, 06:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagobrew View Post
Again, I suggest downloading a free copy of the EZ Water spreadsheet.
+1 this spreadsheet is easy to use and makes good beer.
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Old 10-13-2010, 07:17 PM   #8
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I'll use that right now and see what I come up with.

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Old 10-13-2010, 07:36 PM   #9
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Ok so am i wrong in trying to adjust my alkalinity to get it in the 150ppm-300ppm range? I thought for a beer that has an SRM of 40 you would need to get it in that range?

I used EZ Water and I come up with 5 grams each of Chalk and Baking soda for 243 Alkalinity and 171 RA... or 9-10 grams of just baking soda...Ill get 239 for alkalinity and 238 RA...

I've changed my total water to 10.25 gallons total.

Is this correct now?

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Old 10-13-2010, 07:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowtiebrewery View Post
Ok so am i wrong in trying to adjust my alkalinity to get it in the 150ppm-300ppm range? I thought for a beer that has an SRM of 40 you would need to get it in that range?

I used EZ Water and I come up with 5 grams each of Chalk and Baking soda for 243 Alkalinity and 171 RA... or 9-10 grams of just baking soda...Ill get 239 for alkalinity and 238 RA...

I've changed my total water to 10.25 gallons total.

Is this correct now?
Where is the mash pH?

I would not get so hung up on the RA. Just get the mash pH in range and then unclick the box for the sparge additions. RA be dammed!
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