CaCl problem

400d · 01-21-2012, 06:24 PM

I always use some CaCl in my brewing water, especially when I want maltier beer. I add some to the mash, and some to the kettle, according to ez calculator.

Problem is that I always find undissolved CaCl on the bottom of the kettle after the boil is done, while I'm transfering to the fermentor...

What's going on? If i have it undissolved in the kettle, I wonder how much of it is left in the mash??

Why isn't it dissolving and how to solve this problem?

Thank you!

mabrungard · 01-21-2012, 08:54 PM

Its not likely to be calcium chloride. That chemical is highly soluble. What you are more likely seeing is calcium phosphate that reacted from the calcium you supplied and the phytin compounds from the grain. This reaction tends to increase as the concentration of calcium in the water increases.

The sediment could also be from impurities in the calcium chloride.

**samc** · 01-22-2012, 06:20 AM

Premix your salts in a small amount of water to make sure that they dissolve. Obviously some of them won't but that is another topic.

**ajdelange** · 01-22-2012, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400d

I always use some CaCl .... and some to the kettle, according to ez calculator.

I'm curious as to why you would do this. Is pH going into the kettle too high? That's the usual reason for adding calcium to the boil and if you are precipitating apatite as you appear to be that is an indication that the calcium would have had the desired effect wrt pH reduction but if the goal was to increase calcium and the wording of your question implies it might be then clearly, given precipitation of apatite, all of it is not making it into the beer.

If the stuff in the bottom is, when dried, powdery then it is probably apatite. If it is greasy or has any other organic properties then it contains break material though it might contain some apatite as well. Heating some of it will reveal that. If there is organic material it will turn dark, brown and eventually black under, say, a propane torch flame. If it is apatite, it won't.

400d · 01-23-2012, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajdelange

I'm curious as to why you would do this. Is pH going into the kettle too high? That's the usual reason for adding calcium to the boil and if you are precipitating apatite as you appear to be that is an indication that the calcium would have had the desired effect wrt pH reduction but if the goal was to increase calcium and the wording of your question implies it might be then clearly, given precipitation of apatite, all of it is not making it into the beer.

If the stuff in the bottom is, when dried, powdery then it is probably apatite. If it is greasy or has any other organic properties then it contains break material though it might contain some apatite as well. Heating some of it will reveal that. If there is organic material it will turn dark, brown and eventually black under, say, a propane torch flame. If it is apatite, it won't.

I forgot to mention maybe the most important thing - my CaCl is 6-hydrate

I always compensate adding 50% more of it because it has more water molecules attached to it...

But - could this cause it less dissolvable?

**ajdelange** · 01-23-2012, 06:45 PM

No, it would make it approximately twice as soluble because it takes about 1.5 kg of the hexahydrate to contain as much CaCl2 as the .745 kg of CaCl2 (anhydride) which will dissolve in a liter of water.

400d · 01-23-2012, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajdelange

No, it would make it approximately twice as soluble because it takes about 1.5 kg of the hexahydrate to contain as much CaCl2 as the .745 kg of CaCl2 (anhydride) which will dissolve in a liter of water.

do you suggest that I toss everything from the bottom of the kettle (whatever this sediment is) to the fermentor?

400d · 01-23-2012, 07:29 PM

or to add all my salts to mash (by now I always cut it in half and add one half to the mash and the other one to the kettle...) because I read somewhere that it should be done like that...

now I'm really confused....

**ajdelange** · 01-24-2012, 03:08 AM

Most brewers add salts to the brewing water and this is what should be done with most salts. The exception would be calcium carbonate which, as it is not soluble to any appreciable extent, would be added to the mash but the occasions where you need to do that should be rare and would be limited to cases where you are trying to brew a beer that is normally brewed with a natural water that is more alkaline than yours.

Some brewers add salts to the kettle as well but that is usually done in order to lower kettle pH and it does so by precipitating additional calcium phosphate (apatite) as is happening to you. No, you shouldn't add the precipitate to the fermentor. It is alkaline and will absorb acid from the ferment driving its pH higher. You want a low pH for fermentation.