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Old 11-09-2013, 03:24 PM   #1
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Default Bru'n Water question

First time user with a couple questions.
1.On the Mash Acidification page, does mash water gallons refer to only the mash water or the total water used in mash and sparge?

2.On the same page, does Post Boil Volume in the Batch Wort Volume box refer to actual post boil or "into the fermenter post boil volume"?

3.How do you list Carapils? Base Malt?

4. In the below recipe, a clone of Green Flash West Coast IPA, would you add the 4 oz of acidulated malt? Using 100% RO, if I add 3.9 grams of both Gypsum and Cal Chlor, the spreadsheet puts me at 5.5. 4 oz of acid malt gets me to 5.4. I may 1 more gram of Gypsum to get the sulfates a little higher. Your thoughts?



12 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 82.0 %
1 lbs 4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.2 %
1 lbs 4.0 oz Carapils (Briess) (1.5 SRM) Grain 3 8.2 %
4.0 oz Acidulated (Weyermann) (1.8 SRM) Grain 4 1.6 %
0.50 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 5 20.8 IBUs
0.25 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 12.1 IBUs
0.25 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 9.7 IBUs
0.25 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.20 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 8 9.3 IBUs
0.25 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 9 7.5 IBUs
0.75 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.20 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 18.1 IBUs
0.75 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 11 14.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [7.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 12 8.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 13 1.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 14 0.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35.49 ml] Yeast 15 -
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.20 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs

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Old 11-09-2013, 05:14 PM   #2
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Which water profile are you targeting?

Make sure you are using the current version of the spreadsheet.

Quote:
1.On the Mash Acidification page, does mash water gallons refer to only the mash water or the total water used in mash and sparge?
It refers to the total mash water, including any incremental infusions. It should match the Mash Water Volume on the "Water Adjustment" worksheet.

Quote:
2.On the same page, does Post Boil Volume in the Batch Wort Volume box refer to actual post boil or "into the fermenter post boil volume"?
I treat it as full volume into the fermenter, less about 1 quart loss with my system. YMMV

Quote:
3.How do you list Carapils? Base Malt?
Technically it is a caramel malt, although I do not know if it works in the spreadsheet as the SRM is so light. Since the acid amounts are driven by Lovibond and MCU, I would input as crystal and see what that does.

#4 is really a matter of preference, hence my question about which profile you are targeting. I input your recipe, targeted the "Pale Ale Profile" since it is high in sulfates and should enhance bitterness and dryness.

Assuming a 5 gallon batch, with 4.8 gal total mash water and 2.9 gal sparge. Using NO acid malt, 9.6 grams Gypsum and 1 gram CaCL2 - the estimated mash pH is 5.2. Acid malt is not necessary. This results in 138 ppm Ca, 296 ppm Sulfate and 30 ppm chloride. I would keep some baking soda or slaked lime handy and use a tiny bit in the mash if necessary to prevent going below 5.2. The spreadsheet can help predict how much to achieve 5.3 or 5.4. You may wish to add less Gypsum as that is quite a bit.

There are an additional 5.9 grams Gypsum and .6 grams CaCl2 in the sparge. It doesn't appear you would need any acidification in your sparge water.

What I find interesting here is that I brewed a similar recipe yesterday and pushed out about the same target profile. I have been hesitant to add so much mineral salts to my R/O water - but since my last two pale ales have been missing some bitterness, thought I would give it a try. My grist had no crystal at all, just 2-row, Vienna and Carapils - I hit 5.3 dead on in mash in.

Martin was kind enough to work with me on a walk through of Bru'n Water, the link is below in my signature. You may find it useful as it focuses on building R/O water.
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Old 11-10-2013, 12:14 AM   #3
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Thank you. I'm on the road right now so I will check my profile i used when I get home tomorrow. I may have an old version as this is my first time using it and I haven't made a donation yet so I don't think I have latest version. I am doing a 90 minute boil with 7.65 gal mash water and 2 .15 sparge water I believe. My numbers aren't close to yours so my profile must be different.

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Old 11-10-2013, 01:35 AM   #4
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Since the volumes are close, only the distribution of the minerals mash to sparge would really change. Of course, the additions will adjust with your higher starting volume. I found a clone article today for that recipe and it seems to indicate "burton like" water profile, but at half the sulfates. Some research might push you to a different target. The Pale Ale profile sulfate is 300 ppm, if I recall correctly Burton would be nearly 600 ppm. Best of luck! That is a tasty beer! Wish I could get it regularly down here.

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Old 11-10-2013, 02:12 AM   #5
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Recipe is from Can You Brew It. I've done it before with another calculator. It came out close. Wanted to try this one as it seems more accurate. Using Conan yeast for something different. I'll keep you informed what I end up doing

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Old 11-10-2013, 01:33 PM   #6
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In reentered my info using pale ale and also amber bitter profiles. I can't get anywhere near your numbers for sparge additions. I must be missing something. I settled on 7.7 gr gypsum in mash, 2.2 in sparge and 3.8 cacl2 in mash and 1.1 in sparge. All the finished water profiles are green with the exception of sulfates which seems to be ok. Being my first time with this calculator, I will err on side of caution. Using another calculator last time I brewed this, I used 6 gr of gypsum and cacl2 in mash and 2 gr each in sparge and beer was ok. Starting to heat strike water soon, so if you read this soon, any thoughts are appreciated.

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Old 11-10-2013, 02:02 PM   #7
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Will take another swing at it... just need a couple minutes

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Old 11-10-2013, 02:29 PM   #8
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OK first thing is inputting the recipe in Mash Acidification tab... make sure to choose Adjustment Water as you are using R/O. I did not include the acid malt. I am using the free version to illustrate. We can ignore (for now) the Water Report Input tab as you want to use 100% R/O dilution.



Then go to the Water Adjustment worksheet, select Pale Ale Profile, RO Water for dilution and set the Dilution Percentage to 100%. Begin adding Gypsum and CaCo3 until your sulfate, chloride and calcium is more or less correct. The profile is a suggestion, and you should treat it such. Calcium can have a fairly wide swing - I would prioritize sulfate and chloride in this instance as they have the flavor effect you may want.



Note that I added a tiny bit of pickling lime - I would withhold this and only add it to the mash should my pH drop below 5.2. That 0.8 gram should raise the pH to about 5.3.

Then I went over to the Sparge worksheet.



While it indicates you may need to use a little bit of acid, I would not. R/O is perfectly suited as Sparge water. Given the mineral additions there - the pH should be fine.

--

This is how I use the worksheet. Other people may have different opinions. Example: you can toss the sparge additions into the boil if you prefer. Hope this is helpful.

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Old 11-10-2013, 02:37 PM   #9
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And finally, my favorite worksheet... I print this out for my brewday - helps double check my additions and volumes. And has AJ's cool chart.

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Old 11-10-2013, 02:49 PM   #10
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I understand now. Only question is that you have Carapils at 23L. I have it as 2L per Rebel Brewer website. Changes ph to 5.3. I guess I am worried since I have never put this much gypsum in a batch before, but I will try it. I dont have any pickling lime.

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