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Old 11-08-2012, 08:51 PM   #501
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Originally Posted by jmf143 View Post
I enter the total sparge water volume as you suggested, as that is the actual water that I am adding my sparge/kettle salts to.
That also makes makes sense.

However, what made me question the way I was doing it, is that what if you're not adding any salts to your sparge/HLT water at all? Then what does the value you put for the sparge volume affect, and how? I don't usually add any salts to my HLT, but I noticed that the final water profile changes with the value you enter for the sparge volume regardless.

Am I making any sense? Am I missing something here?

Thanks!

EDIT: for example, I fill my HLT to 15 gallons when I begin a brew day, so I could put that in the cell for sparge volume (which would make sense if you're adding any salts). However, I always end up with a couple gallons left in my MLT and HLT once sparging is finished. So are those extra gallons being accounted for somehow in the spreadsheet? I always figured they weren't, so that's why I used the [pre-boil volume - mash volume] to get the value to enter in that cell.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:00 AM   #502
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random observation that may be helpful to someone. To drop 10lb of grain by 0.1 pH, we've read before that it takes about .8ml of 88% lactic acid. For those of us without pipettes, that's an infant tylenol dropper.

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Old 11-12-2012, 05:10 PM   #503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiber_Brew View Post
That also makes makes sense.

However, what made me question the way I was doing it, is that what if you're not adding any salts to your sparge/HLT water at all? Then what does the value you put for the sparge volume affect, and how? I don't usually add any salts to my HLT, but I noticed that the final water profile changes with the value you enter for the sparge volume regardless.

Am I making any sense? Am I missing something here?

Thanks!

EDIT: for example, I fill my HLT to 15 gallons when I begin a brew day, so I could put that in the cell for sparge volume (which would make sense if you're adding any salts). However, I always end up with a couple gallons left in my MLT and HLT once sparging is finished. So are those extra gallons being accounted for somehow in the spreadsheet? I always figured they weren't, so that's why I used the [pre-boil volume - mash volume] to get the value to enter in that cell.
Keep in mind the 2 goals of the spreadsheet - one is to calculate the mash pH, the other is to calculate the concentration of the "stylistic/taste" salts - those that affect the perceived flavor and other beneficial fermentation aspects as opposed to affecting the pH of the mash. The most familiar taste elements are chloride and sulfate. If your goal is to end up with a finished beer that has 100 ppm of chloride and 80 ppm of sulfate and you were to ignore your sparge volume, you would end up diluting the concentration of your desired chloride and sulfate.

If you end up with sparge water left over that never makes it into your kettle, reduce your sparge value on the spreadsheet by a corresponding amount.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:57 PM   #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiber_Brew View Post
I've been using the EZ water calc spreadsheet for a while now, and it just occurred to me that I might be using the sparge water input incorrectly. Where it asks for sparge water volume, I've been using [pre-boil volume - mash volume] to get my number. Should I be entering the total sparge water volume in the HLT instead? It would alter the ppm dilution of any sparge mineral additions, so I'm not sure which is the correct way to use that part of the spreadsheet.

I searched, and could not find an answer, so sorry if this has already been addressed.

Thanks,
TB
It depends on when you are adding your sparge water salts. If you are adding them to all of your sparge water prior to sparging, then use that volume in the spreadsheet. If you are waiting to add the salts until post-sparge in the boil kettle, then you should only enter into the spreadsheet the actual sparge water used, because in effect you are only treating that amount of water.

Make sense?
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:22 AM   #505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmf143 View Post
Keep in mind the 2 goals of the spreadsheet - one is to calculate the mash pH, the other is to calculate the concentration of the "stylistic/taste" salts - those that affect the perceived flavor and other beneficial fermentation aspects as opposed to affecting the pH of the mash. The most familiar taste elements are chloride and sulfate. If your goal is to end up with a finished beer that has 100 ppm of chloride and 80 ppm of sulfate and you were to ignore your sparge volume, you would end up diluting the concentration of your desired chloride and sulfate.

If you end up with sparge water left over that never makes it into your kettle, reduce your sparge value on the spreadsheet by a corresponding amount.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -TH- View Post
It depends on when you are adding your sparge water salts. If you are adding them to all of your sparge water prior to sparging, then use that volume in the spreadsheet. If you are waiting to add the salts until post-sparge in the boil kettle, then you should only enter into the spreadsheet the actual sparge water used, because in effect you are only treating that amount of water.

Make sense?
Yes, this is pretty much what I'm getting at. There are a few gallons of water left in my HLT after sparging, along with some amount left in the MLT. I do not treat my sparge water at all, but I do treat the mash water. The reason for this, is that my water isn't far off at all for most styles of beer that I brew. So, typically, I just need to lower the pH a bit, and add some sulfate. Since sulfate helps lower the mash pH, I just put it all in the mash, so I get my target pH, and the diluted result in the BK with the desired mineral content. For this reason, I've been putting the [pre-boil volume - mash water volume] for the sparge value, and unchecking the box that says "adjusting sparge water." So, the way understood it, that value is used to calculate the diluted result after sparging.

Am I interpreting this correctly?

Thanks again for the help!
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Secondary:
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About 36 gallons of beer & 4.2 gallons of mead
Kegged & conditioning:
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:55 AM   #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiber_Brew

Yes, this is pretty much what I'm getting at. There are a few gallons of water left in my HLT after sparging, along with some amount left in the MLT. I do not treat my sparge water at all, but I do treat the mash water. The reason for this, is that my water isn't far off at all for most styles of beer that I brew. So, typically, I just need to lower the pH a bit, and add some sulfate. Since sulfate helps lower the mash pH, I just put it all in the mash, so I get my target pH, and the diluted result in the BK with the desired mineral content. For this reason, I've been putting the [pre-boil volume - mash water volume] for the sparge value, and unchecking the box that says "adjusting sparge water." So, the way understood it, that value is used to calculate the diluted result after sparging.

Am I interpreting this correctly?

Thanks again for the help!
Ah I see now. Yes you've got it right!
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:20 AM   #507
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Great, thanks for your help!

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On tap:
1. Dubbel 2. Oatmeal Amber 3. Camp Beer 4. Pale Ale 5.[Nitrogen] Dry Stout
Primary:
1. Porter 2. Porter 3. IPA 4. IPA 5. none 6. none
Secondary:
1. Brett Ale 2. Lambic 3. Lambic 4. Pils 5. Pils
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Kegged & conditioning:
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:43 PM   #508
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This may be a dumb question..... The baseline is just calcium chloride + Acid Malt. How would it affect the beer if you used just Gypsum + Acid malt?

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Old 11-21-2012, 02:54 PM   #509
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They say the only dumb questions are the ones that don't get asked. I always like to tell the story of the president of my company who gave his annual 'things are going to be great' spiel and then asked for any questions. When there were none he reached into his pocket, pulled out a crisp new $100 bill, held it aloft and said he'd give it to anyone who asked a dumb question. The muse descended and I blurted out 'Is that real?' to which he responded 'That's a good question!'.

Anyway, the calcium is calcium in either case so the pH reducing effect (small relative to that of the acid) is the same. So the difference in the beers is the difference between the effects of chloride and sulfate. The former tends to increase sense of mouthfeel, roundness and sweetness. Sulfate tends to make hops bitterness more aggressive. This is while you will see some remarks about using gypsum in British style beers where the sulfate related hops characteristics are considered desirable but not in German beers where they are not.

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Old 11-28-2012, 12:58 AM   #510
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I have a question related to the primer. I have been successfully using the guidelines in the primer, with minor modifications, for a while now. I am in the process of switching over to BIAB. It looks like I need more acid malt to reach my desired PH. I am basing this off of brunwater and ezwater, which are dead on with my normal batch sparge method. I assume the difference is because of the no-sparge nature of BIAB (more water in the mash), but I am just wondering if there is something I am missing. I know it has been mentioned to use less then 4% (affects flavor?), but I am thinking that statement assumes the full volume of water is not in the mash tun.

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