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Old 09-09-2012, 03:36 AM   #471
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42

Should an IPA include saurmaiz?
Yes
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Old 09-09-2012, 03:54 PM   #472
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How about black lagers? I'm planning a schwarzbier and am wondering how I should treat my water assuming I use 100% RO water. Since the recipe contains some caramunich and a small amount of roast malt (carafa), should I really use 3% acid malt? I'm assuming the 1/2 tsp of calcium chloride is still needed.

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Old 09-10-2012, 01:00 PM   #473
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
Should an IPA include saurmaiz?
It should include some form of acid. In the UK they use CRS which is a blend of hydrochloric and sulfuric acids. In the US that is not, AFAIK, available so you must use another acid. I feel a little funny about recommending sauermalz in a British beer but as it is pretty universally available, easy and safe to handle and measure out and effective I'd say yes, use it.
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:04 PM   #474
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Originally Posted by periwinkle1239 View Post
How about black lagers? I'm planning a schwarzbier and am wondering how I should treat my water assuming I use 100% RO water. Since the recipe contains some caramunich and a small amount of roast malt (carafa), should I really use 3% acid malt? I'm assuming the 1/2 tsp of calcium chloride is still needed.
The caramunich will pull the pH down a little but the carafa not so much (as there isn't much of it). This is a tricky one and thus one where a pH measurement would really be helpful. I'd say, based purely on gut feel, to use 2% sauermalz here assuming that the darker malts will have about the equivalent effect of 1% (i.e. about 0.1 pH).

The calcium chloride is in there not so much to lower pH as it is to provide calcium for other purposes but mainly to be sure there is sufficient chloride so yes, do use it.
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:11 PM   #475
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Should an IPA include saurmaiz?
I have to put a qualifier on this one. If the water is hardened fairly high in order to provide a high sulfate that many IPA lovers enjoy, then it may not be necessary to include acid or acid malt in the mash. This is due to the effect of depressing the mash water's RA via the high amount of calcium (and magnesium, if used) and its reaction with the malt phytins.

Including acid or acid malt in the mash without having a handle on the other factors involved in establishing mash pH, could be trouble. The Primer works with the modest level of mineralization that AJ recommends, so don't try and extrapolate that recommendation when you bump up the minerals.
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:33 PM   #476
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Is there any experience with how pumpkin in the mash affects pH?

I recently made a pumpkin ale and built the water in BruN for an estimated mash pH of 5.5 (though I didn't add anything for the pumpkin in the grain acidification calculator).

The mash pH (measured at ~26*C) ended up being 5.20.

Doing some reading, it appears pumpkin has a pH of ~4.6, so I guess that makes sense that 90oz of pumpkin would drop the pH a bit. Just wondering what anyone else is seeing with pumpkin in the mash.

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Old 09-11-2012, 12:42 AM   #477
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Keep in mind that calcium is relatively ineffectual at reducing pH (relative to acid and relative to the ability of alkalinity to raise it). 100 mg/L calcium will lower knockout pH by 0.12 units (and mash pH by, presumably, a bit less than this). Thus to accomplish the approximately 0.3 pH reduction that is associated with a 3% sauermalz addition would require about 250 mg/L calcium. Also remember that recommendation of 3% in the primer is associated with about 90 mg/L Ca (more than I would use but what many people seem to like).

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Old 09-13-2012, 01:21 AM   #478
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Originally Posted by AZ_IPA View Post
Is there any experience with how pumpkin in the mash affects pH?

I recently made a pumpkin ale and built the water in BruN for an estimated mash pH of 5.5 (though I didn't add anything for the pumpkin in the grain acidification calculator).

The mash pH (measured at ~26*C) ended up being 5.20.

Doing some reading, it appears pumpkin has a pH of ~4.6, so I guess that makes sense that 90oz of pumpkin would drop the pH a bit. Just wondering what anyone else is seeing with pumpkin in the mash.
I believe there is some validity here. I had a similar experience, did you bake your pumpkin? I only used 60 oz, but I baked it on a cookie sheet at 350 degrees for 1-hour and then used it in the mash. Either way my mash pH was the same as yours (5.2) with the pumpkin brew.

I am curious as to what the finished product will be like - I brewed this a month ago and will be kegging it soon. One thing that was peculiar was that it fermented all the way to 1.010 (OG of 1.055) - I mashed at 154 degrees and so I wasn't expecting such a low FG. For reference, when I mash my IPAs at 150 I usually only end up with FGs between 1.012 to 1.014. But fermentation in general was very odd with this pumpkin brew as it was very active for over a week before it started to settle down. I used harvested Bell's yeast and fermented at 65 degrees.
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:33 AM   #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajdelange View Post
Keep in mind that calcium is relatively ineffectual at reducing pH (relative to acid and relative to the ability of alkalinity to raise it). 100 mg/L calcium will lower knockout pH by 0.12 units (and mash pH by, presumably, a bit less than this). Thus to accomplish the approximately 0.3 pH reduction that is associated with a 3% sauermalz addition would require about 250 mg/L calcium. Also remember that recommendation of 3% in the primer is associated with about 90 mg/L Ca (more than I would use but what many people seem to like).
Thank you AJ, for confirming my point. If a 0.3 unit reduction was your target and you actually reduce it by 0.42 units, you probably wouldn't be happy!
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:38 AM   #480
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AJ... if mash pH is properly controlled, do the salt additions matter at all with regards to the mash (or any time before it reaches the glass)?

I ask because I'm thinking I might test various salt additions on a single batch, in order to determine what I feel to be optimal for the beer. For instance, I would carefully measure out (with a milligram scale) additions of calcium chloride to the glass, and stir to mix well before drinking. Or if that causes the beer to foam, I could do it in the bottles while priming... Maybe have a dozen bottles, each with different additions, and pour samples for myself and fellow club members.

Of course, this would only make sense if (assuming mash pH is properly controlled), the only thing these salt additions accomplish are DIRECT effects on our perception of taste, mouthfeel, etc. If they also have less direct secondary effects, then adding them after fermentation wouldn't give very useful results (assuming my plan would from then on be to treat the strike and sparge water).

Am I making sense? It just seems like a convenient way to really experiment with salt additions and how they affect the perception of flavor, and to determine (subjectively, of course), what the best ion concentration would be for any given beer.

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