Brewing water for Black IPA

cooper · 01-10-2012, 04:06 PM

Here is the recipe from NB for Black IPA:

MASH INGREDIENTS
-- 11.5 lbs. Rahr 2-row pale
--.5 lbs. Briess Caramel 80L
--.375 lbs. Weyermann Dehusked Carafa III
--.375 lbs. English Chocolate Malt

BOIL ADDITIONS & TIMES
-- 1 oz. Summit (60 min)
-- 1 oz. Chinook (15 min) 1 oz.
-- Centennial (10 min) 1 oz.
-- Cascade (5 min) 1 oz.
-- Centennial (0 min)
-- 1 lb Corn sugar (0 min)
DRY HOPS – add to secondary fermenter one week before packaging:
-- 1 oz. Cascade

Mash at 152F for 60min at 1.57qt/lb

I plan on using RO water and building my water from scratch roughly based on the primer using Kaiser's water spreadsheet; here are the numbers:

Additions per five gallon strike water:
1 gram Gypsum
3 grams Calcium Chloride
12 grams Chalk (undissolved CaCO3) added to mash

Calcium - 140.2 mg/L
Sulfate - 22.6 mg/L
Chloride - 58.7 mg/L
Bicarbonate - 296.9 mg/L
Alkalinity - 527.2 alkalinity ppm as CaCO3
RA - 310.3 ppm as CaCO3
pH shift from DI pH - .25
estimated mash pH - 5.40 @ 77F

These salt additions are only added to the strike water (5 gal)

My question is does this look appropriate for a BlackIPA with lots of late addition hops and some dark grains. I'm still very new at water calculations but the bicarbonates seem pretty high.

If I need to change anything what should I do? What do most of you who use RO water add when making dark beers. I know the primer said to add one tsp of CaCl2 but didn't know if you guys do something different when making your hoppy and dark beers.

If you need any additional info please let me know

Thanks!

mabrungard · 01-10-2012, 05:12 PM

Doesn't look correct to me. The calcium content is higher than necessary and the alkalinity seems way too high which produces a RA that is too high. Chalk is an unreliable alkalinity producer. Pickling Lime is more certain, but it is much stronger and requires careful measurement and addition.

DSmith · 01-10-2012, 05:57 PM

The EZ water calculator results in the following (1.5 qt/lb mash) for just 2 grams of CaCl and 2 grams of CaSO4 per 5 gallons of treated water. Estimated mash pH of 5.44.

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 53
Mg: 0
Na: 0
Cl: 51
SO4: 59
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 0.86

Grain Weight Color Distilled water mash pH
Base-2 Row (Rahr) 11.5 0 5.56
Crystal Malt 0.5 80 4.82
Roasted/Toasted Malt 0.375 0 4.71
Roasted/Toasted Malt 0.375 0 4.71

cooper · 01-10-2012, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mabrungard

Doesn't look correct to me. The calcium content is higher than necessary and the alkalinity seems way too high which produces a RA that is too high. Chalk is an unreliable alkalinity producer. Pickling Lime is more certain, but it is much stronger and requires careful measurement and addition.

Not sure where to get pickling lime nor how much to use. But I need a way to get the PH up to around 5.4 and without the 12 grams of chalk it only comes out to 5.1 which is way too low.

I could decrease the CaCl2 to 2 grams and Gypsum to 1 gram and that will bring the Ca down to 129 and sulfate to 22.6, but the RA is still 196.4 and alkalinity is 316.3. Does anyone know what the alkalinity should be for a BlkIPA?

coypoo · 01-10-2012, 08:05 PM

I think you need to get your sulfates higher to help accentuate the hops

**Yooper** · 01-10-2012, 08:09 PM

Well, ditch the chalk for sure because it won't dissolve. But your alkalinity is WAY too high.

RCCOLA · 01-10-2012, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooper

But I need a way to get the PH up to around 5.4 and without the 12 grams of chalk it only comes out to 5.1 which is way too low.

Don't mash the Carafa or choc malt. This eliminates its effect on mash pH.

For flavor:
Steep it separately in 155F water, then add it when you runoff.

For color only:
Steep it overnight in 1qt/lb of cold water and add at the runoff.

With the other salts and the C80, your pH will prolly be ~ 5.4-5.5

cooper · 01-10-2012, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yooper

Well, ditch the chalk for sure because it won't dissolve. But your alkalinity is WAY too high.

That's the chalk driving it up. What do you do for your water when brewing a Black IPA?

cooper · 01-10-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCCOLA

Don't mash the Carafa or choc malt. This eliminates its effect on mash pH.

For flavor:
Steep it separately in 155F water, then add it when you runoff.

For color only:
Steep it overnight in 1qt/lb of cold water and add at the runoff.

With the other salts and the C80, your pH will prolly be ~ 5.4-5.5

This would be something I'd try but when you order a kit from NB they mix all the grains into one bag so seperation is not an option at this point.

**Yooper** · 01-10-2012, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooper

That's the chalk driving it up. What do you do for your water when brewing a Black IPA?

Same as most other beers, actually. Since I have a high alkalinity naturally, I use a mix of RO water and my tap water (to lower my alkalinity) and add some CaCl2 (very little) and some gypsum (again, not much). I've NEVER had a too-low pH, in fact usually the opposite. I think you'd be fine with bringing your calcium into range (50 ppm) and the chloride and sulfate both in the 50s. Ignore the Cl:SO4 ratio and that is meaningless, and try to get your mash pH at 5.4-5.6 at room temperature.

If using RO water, I'd suggest 2 grams of each the CaCl2 and CaS04 to the mash and sparge with 100% RO water. That should do it.