mikefromcu

Recipes 

Hey all,

I need to make a starter for a 1.6 bbl (51 gallon) batch of 1.055 ale and a similar size/gravity Kolsch.

I have a stir plate and a 10 liter pyrex to make the starter in.

I've seen mrmalty and know what Jamil's calculator recommends, but wanted to see what thoughts were here.

I was thinking of doing 9 liter starter, on the stir place, with 4 vials of White Labs (002 and 029 respectively for each starter).

Is there a way to calculate how much that will propagate up to? Is it enough?

JohnMc

Recipes 

mike, make a 5 gallon batch of something similar and use the yeast cake from that as your starter.

mikefromcu

Recipes 

Let's assume that's not an option at this time (although I have used that technique in the past).

JohnMc

Recipes 

I did all kinds of counts a long time ago and found for ale yeast that a starter made from a 1.050 DME wort supplemented with 1/2 or 1 (my notes are elsewhere) teaspoons per quart of yeast nutrient (the urea and ammonium phosphate kind) on a stir plate would have the right amount of cells for 5 gallons. Basically, the extra nitrogen in the nutrient plus the stirring made the difference. For your 51 gals, that's 10.2 quarts.
So, if you've got the nutrient, 9 liters will only be underpitching by about 10%, though YMMV

piteko

Recipes 

Hi all,
I would get that missing 10% raising the 1050 DME starter to 1055, which is the same OG that Mike is going to brew, so to have the positive effect of growing the yeast in the same OG it will meet in the wort.
Could it be a good idea?

mikefromcu

Recipes 

So, just to follow up...
Not sure how useful this information is to most on this board, but I do appreciate the responses for sure.

I ended up using this technique to make two starters for two beers:
I made a 10 liter starter on the stove with about 2.75# extract. Cooled, poured through funnel into 10 liter Pyrex "jug".

Pitched 4 White Labs vials (one of 029, the next one of 002), put it on the stir plate.

From the 12th hour, for the next 8 hours or so, I hit it with Pure O2 through a diffusion stone for about 30 seconds, or until it foamed up too high. (this while it was still spinning on my stir plate).

On the third day, the yeast was done, I crashed it out in my cold room, then on brew day (the next day in one case and 4 days later in the other), I syphoned off the spent wort/beer down to about the 1500-2000 mL level.

I swirled up everything under that level, and pitched into my awaiting 53 gallons at 1.054 and 51 gallons at 1.055 awaiting worts.

Both had no problem getting right to work - the Kolsch took it down to 1.010, the 002 finished out in just 3.5 days to 1.014.

So, the answer to the question, will this work, is Hell Ya.

Cheers
Mike
www.hessbrewing.com

JohnMc

Recipes 

Good deal, Mike, glad to hear it worked!

greenbirds

Recipes 

104 gallons of beer. Awesome.

Brewpastor

Recipes 

Any reason you cold crashed the starter?

Congrats on the successful brews. I assume they taste great!

__________________
Before I learned to brew I was poor, sober and lonely. Now I am just poor.

passedpawn

Recipes 

I always do this to get the yeast to drop hard and then remove the nasty beer from the top before pitching. Might not be so necessary in a stout, but in a german pils I think it is necessary.

__________________
Now there's some take delight in the carriages a rolling
and others take delight in the hurling and the bowling
but I take delight in the juice of the barley
and courting pretty fair maids in the morning bright and early