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Old 11-17-2014, 08:41 PM   #141
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My Berliner is awesome, but I added JP La Roja dregs so I don't know if it counts.

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Old 11-17-2014, 09:54 PM   #142
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I pulled a sample of a sour rye I brewed. It was brewed back on 10/12 and fermented with De Bom, so it's very young for a sour. It smelled very sour...similar to Berliner Weisses I've made. Flavor-wise it was definitely sour but much more subdued than I expected it to be based on the aroma. I'm interested to see what it does over the next few months.

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Old 11-18-2014, 07:18 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by jnacey View Post
Has anybody actually made what they deem a successful batch with either of these yet? Seems like people are a bit underwhelmed at the 2 month mark.
I pitched the de bom blend in August. At two months it definitely had off flavors that needed more time for the bacteria to clean them up. At the end of October I tasted it and there was light pleasant sourness. I decided to rack the 5 gallons onto 7-8 lbs of raspberries in the hopes the sugars from them would let the bugs chug away and lower the pH even further. I did add a bunch of dregs when I racked onto the raspberries and there is a great pellicle forming now but I can't necessarily attribute that to the de bom blend when I added dregs.

In the end I would've been content with the beer I tasted before racking onto berries but I wouldn't use this ever again (I did pitch another beer onto the yeast/bacteria cake of the de bom blend so we will see if 2nd gen de bom actually sours better, I'm assuming it will). The reason why I say that is I did the same exact beer but pitched the roselare blend and it was much more sour and pleasant tasting in two months than the de bom blend which is actually advertised for that.
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Old 01-05-2015, 07:48 AM   #144
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Default Saison it is (sort of)

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Any do a Saison with the Oud Bruin blend?
Can't decide what I want to pitch it in.
I sorta think I should throw it into a southern English brown I need to brew in the next couple weeks then rep itch the dregs into a Saison.
Ok, finally made time to use Oud Bruin blend. 11 gal of golden wort into 2 carboys. Half w Oud Bruin and half with Lambic Blend/Nottingham.
Re: Oud Bruin. Took 3-4 days at 80F to see activity. Good krasuen (albeit it lite and soapy looking). Fermenting at 80F with space heater in chest freezer. Got unplugged and cooled to 72F, lost Krausen. And activity. Sample shows pH 4.05, SG ~ 1.040 (OG was 1.062). Use carboy heater to get temp back up. Overshot to ~89-90. Letting it cool back down to 80F or so. Need to get a thermalwell/controller setup going. Overall lightly tart but still sweet from the remaining sugar. I mashed ~156-158. Reminded me of a sweet New Belgium Snapshot. Not looking for a lot of sour but a nice crisp tartness from lacto. (Actually wicked sour would be good cuz then I could blend it out to taste, but don't see that in the cards.) Wyeast says it makes interesting saison but I don't see much in the way of Saison character. I think a custom blend of lacto and belgian yeast would be interesting in the future.

Couple questions:
1) Any real issues with temp being higher than 85F ?
2) Once it hits 1.020 I'm going to cool to ~70F and then hit with O2 a bit daily. Sound right?
3) Why do some folks recommend pitching ale yeast with the lambic blend. Wyeast and others say pitch as is? If I recall Oldsock,says its prevents "resiny" flavors? What is the source of those?

Cheers.
Will report back in time.
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Old 01-05-2015, 02:53 PM   #145
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3) Why do some folks recommend pitching ale yeast with the lambic blend. Wyeast and others say pitch as is? If I recall Oldsock,says its prevents "resiny" flavors? What is the source of those?
For me it is just about consistency. I don't see any advantage to a slow/unhealthy primary fermentation. That resiny flavor was in my first batch of lambic (eight years ago). No idea what the cause was. Who knows how old that pack of Wyeast Lambic Blend was, I certainly didn't check. If you are pitching one that is fresh it shouldn't be a concern, but I don't see any harm in a bit of extra brewer's yeast.
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Old 01-06-2015, 06:14 AM   #146
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Default Bueno

Thank you, slow start was all I could think of as being less than prime. Was wondering if I had missed something. Cheers.

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Old 01-06-2015, 05:51 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by 505-Brewer View Post

Couple questions:
1) Any real issues with temp being higher than 85F ?
2) Once it hits 1.020 I'm going to cool to ~70F and then hit with O2 a bit daily. Sound right?
3) Why do some folks recommend pitching ale yeast with the lambic blend. Wyeast and others say pitch as is? If I recall Oldsock,says its prevents "resiny" flavors? What is the source of those?

Cheers.
Will report back in time.
1) I wouldn't imagine. The higher temp would do two things, imo. It would encourage the growth of the lacto brevis in the blend to increase acidity and drop pH, but it could also encourage the production of phenols given the sacc strain is in the blend as well. When I used this blend, I put it up into the 90s for around a week, but I pitched Brett Trois with it as well (I wanted to use the De Bom blend, but couldn't get any so I tried to make my own).

2) I know that Wyeast encourages the aeration, but this scares the **** out of me. All it will do is encourage the production of acetic acid, which is okay in small amounts, but can totally ruin the beer if it's in too high of a concentration. I'd rather have this sit for like 4-6 months, versus the 2-3 they recommend, to develop complexity. From my initial tastes, this blend creates a nice, soft lactic acidity that is fairly one dimensional, but is begging for a fruit addition or something along those lines.

3) What Mike said. I always have just pitched the blends and added dregs and its worked out for me.

Cheers!
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Old 01-06-2015, 07:13 PM   #148
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My second generation of the blend along with dregs for 6 (or maybe 7?) different sours has made a Flanders Red recipe pretty sour. It's not Rodenbach style pucker, but it is close. If anything it is a bit too full and sweet tasting still compared to Rodenbach.

I believe it is about 1.5 months old (don't have my notes online, think it was brewed 11/25). I plan on letting it sit in the carboy for another month or so, cold crash it a little, then bottle and repitch back onto the cake. This generation is definitely much more sour than the first, but I don't know how much of that is due to the dregs.

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Old 01-08-2015, 07:57 AM   #149
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Default How long to 80% attenuation

How long is it taking most folks? I'm thinking the older smack back might need a boost of fresh lacto starter. 1.5 weeks down to 1.038 from 1.062. pH ~ 3.9

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Old 01-15-2015, 06:24 AM   #150
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Default Hold on a sec!

Ok, so a bit more searching and reading posts here and on interweb. As far as I can tell micro-oxygenation is recommended (but optional) for the De Bom blend in order for the Brett to create some ethyl acetate. As far as I can tell it is not really needed for the beer to finish out. More importantly for the Oud Bruin blend, nowhere is it even recommended. Doing so would likely lead to some acetic acid production from the Lacto Brevis which may or may not be desirable. Depending on what your making It seems that the two blends are getting lumped together in the "fast souring genre" where the assumption is that micro oxygenation is needed to wake up the sacc and finish it off (I certainly assumed and made reference to that). But now I don't think so.

I think I should just let it ride to get it to be sour in the 6-8 week timeframe as stated. (I pitched more Lacto Brevis to speed it up). If I can make time I'll try to seek clarification from Wyeast.

From:

http://www.wyeastlab.com/3rdQrtPC2014acv.cfm

3209 Oud Bruin

· Keep IBU’s low (<15 IBUs)- Although the bacteria cultures have some hop resistance, we want the cultures to become quickly established in the fermentation for rapid acid production. Raising IBU levels will increase inhibition of the bacteria cultures and slow acid production.
· No O2 at inoculation- Once again, we want the bacteria cultures to become quickly established in the fermentation for rapid acid production. Raising O2 levels will increase inhibition of the bacteria cultures and slow acid production.
· Temperature (80-85°F)- The bacteria cultures perform better at warmer temperatures. Just like increasing IBU and O2 levels, decreasing fermentation temperatures will slow down acid production.
· Oak- This culture is designed to produce a drinkable beer in 6-8 weeks so it may be desirable to add oak during micro-aeration. Another method is to create an oak extract by boiling oak in 500-1000 ml water for 15 min. Once cooled, this can be dosed into sample volumes to determine final dosage rate for beer.

No where is micro oxygenation mentioned for this strain.

Anyway thought I'd post this up in case anyone else was thinking the same.

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