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Old 02-27-2013, 06:16 PM   #1
runs4beer
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Default WLP 665 Flemish in Tart of Darkness

This is my first sour beer, I’m not worryed with its progress but would like some feed back and opines on it.
I was given the More Beer Tart of Darkness kit by a member of my club to brew because he didn’t realize that a sour beer would tie up his fermenter space 6-12 month (or more). He didn’t buy yeast with the kit and I (unfortunately) wasn’t able to pick up a pack of Roeselare that should have been used and settled for WLP 665 Flemish ale blend.

I hit the numbers; my OG was 1.057 hit it with 60 seconds of o2 at a rate of ½ liter per minute and pitched the yeast with out a starter at 70°f.

48 hours later I could see very small bubbles (all most like in a glass of cola) rapidly rising and there was a lot of activity in the air lock (so, what was working there, the Brettanomyces, Lactobacillus, Pediococcus..? Didn’t look like Saccharomyces to me).

When I went in to my fermentation chamber a few days later, 5-7 days after pitching the airlock had stopped and I’ve not seen it bubble at all since.

21 days after pitching I pulled a gravity sample just to see what’s going on and the reading was 1.036. It tasted a little sour and worty and over all clean (not funky). It is relative clear, not unlike when I pitched. I never observed krausen on the surface and wonder if the Saccharomyces ever kicked in.

My question:
I pulled the sample 4 days ago I haven't pulled another sample, should I? If so in a week or so?
Would you think about pitching some Sac. yeast, would you let it ride as is?
I have a slant of Wyeast French Saison 3711 I could pitch or some Cal ale yeast.
I have a new pitch of Bug farm 7 but I was going to use that for something else I have planed but I guess I could pitch a little bit of that.

Thoughts?

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Old 02-27-2013, 11:15 PM   #2
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With sour beers, I say this a hundred times.

Leave it alone. As long as the yeast is working, let it be, no need to be worried. STOP pulling hydrometer samples! Fill the airlock, and forget about if for six months and then take a hydrometer reading! You'll have 2 gallons left if you go at this rate.


Funk takes months to develop, leave it alone.


Hope that helps

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Old 02-28-2013, 09:40 AM   #3
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Thanks for you input. You've had experience with this blend and I shouldn't expect any/more contribution from the Sac. then I've observed? You believe that given time the Brett and the bugs will be able to consume 20 or so more points, half of the fermentation? From what I've read I expected the bulk of the fermentation to take place in the first 2-3 weeks and then the bugs slowly consume the last 20-25% as the funk developed. I plan to leave it a lone but I just want to make sure it starting off in the right direction, visually I questioned if had.
Thanks again.

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Old 02-28-2013, 11:38 AM   #4
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+1 to leaving it alone. I have an oud bruin that I check every three months and only take an eye dropper full of beer out for taste development. I won't check it again until June when I add 2 pints of blackberries and let it sit for another 6 months.

I highly recommend getting 6 - 8 glass carbons (or barrels preferably) and spacing them out by three months. It will take a couple of years but once they start rolling in you will be in heaven.

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Old 02-28-2013, 01:15 PM   #5
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After reading your responses I realize maybe my question was too vague and I assure you I plan on leaving it alone.

Lunshbox was your oud bruin pitched with WLP 665?

My question is in regards to WLP 665 vs. Roeselare. I've read that most people that pitched the Roeselare blend with the same OG see much more of Sac. like fermentation to start off and with in a week their gravity is in the mid to upper teens. This was not my experience with WLP 665 and would pitching a little more Sac. be of any benefits OR is 665 capable of finishing the job if given as much time as it needs?


Thanks

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Last edited by runs4beer; 02-28-2013 at 01:50 PM. Reason: my tone
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runs4beer
After reading your responses I realize maybe my question was too vague and I assure you I plan on leaving it alone.

Lunshbox was your oud bruin pitched with WLP 665?

My question is in regards to WLP 665 vs. Roeselare. I've read that most people that pitched the Roeselare blend with the same OG see much more of Sac. like fermentation to start off and with in a week their gravity is in the mid to upper teens. This was not my experience with WLP 665 and would pitching a little more Sac. be of any benefits OR is 665 capable of finishing the job if given as much time as it needs?

Thanks
I think you need to relax. I have never used 665 but from the write up it has the same bugs as Roselare, in different proportions. You never know what's happening with funky blends, which take over, which die, etc. have some trust and relax!!! Check in 3 months and if there's still a gravity problem, which there most likely won't be, then post

The funk won't be there for months.. It's like wine, it tastes watery for months even though ferment is done. Let it age and flavors develop
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:02 AM   #7
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Unlike everyone else, I think you might have a legitimate concern. With my sours, I always rack after 10 days, check the gravity and it is usually in the range of 1.010 to 1.020 (that might be a little high), which tells me the sacc has done it's work, and I then leave them alone for at least 8 months before touching them, and that is only if I moving it onto fruit.

If I had one that was 1.036 I would be concerned about it. I'm not sure the bugs will take it where you want it; the acidity will eventually halt their progress leaving you with a sweet beer. I think I'd add a decent new pitch of sacc yeast to it, but please, DON'T use 3711.

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Old 03-01-2013, 06:49 PM   #8
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I realized that my question may have been better suited to White Labs then the forum’s as it’s their blend and I was looking for advice specifically relating to it, so I emailed them, there are some good tips to be found in it so I decided to post it below. There response was non-committal but reading between the lines from a customer service stand point their advice is not unlike your advice Calder. In my email to them I included my mash temp which I see I forgot to write here: it was 156ºF
Hi Noah,

I would expect that the Saccharomyces would have attenuated further, but the fairly high mash temperature may have contributed a fair amount of unfermentable sugars, at least where the Saccharomyces is concerned, other factors could have contributed as well. Pitching more Saccharomyces may get you a few more points and would have a better chance of do that now then in a few months because as the Brettanomyces and the bacteria strains work they may create a difficult environment for the Saccharomyces. The Brettanomyces and the bacteria strains work slowly and it could take several months for the funky/sour flavors to properly develop. Brett and bacteria like to be warm though, so try to keep the temperature above 75F and they should get to work on the fermentable material still in the beer and may be able to reach your desired finally gravity on their own.

Good luck and happy brewing!

So, basically I could ramp up my chamber’s temp. and hope that it makes down 1.010-1.012 over the next year, year and a half or I could pick up some active Cal ale yeast from a brewery down the road from me and hedge the outcome. I don’t really see any draw backs the latter unlike the former.

If anything worh posting happen, I'll let you know. Thanks.

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Old 03-03-2013, 01:57 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunshbox View Post
+1 to leaving it alone. I have an oud bruin that I check every three months and only take an eye dropper full of beer out for taste development. I won't check it again until June when I add 2 pints of blackberries and let it sit for another 6 months.
Question - wont letting it sit for 6 months after adding the Blackberries remove almost all the Blackberry flavor?

I have three 6 gallon carboys.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:32 PM   #10
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I know White Labs suggests pitching their microbe blends as is... but with ~10 billion cells I'm not comfortable of that giving a happy primary fermentation. I've got two five gallon barrels going with 665 now (haven't pulled samples yet), but I pitched two packets of dried yeast to get things going.

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