Yellow_Boots

Recipes 

I absolutely love sours... but I am still grasping how to make one myself. My wife and I both seek out Flanders Reds and the like all the time, so we wanted to figure out a good "house sour" to make over and over again. I thought of taking a little departure from the norm and try to put a mild twist on the traditional sour guidelines and base the recipe in the robust porter neighborhood, but I am wondering if my desire for a little originality is really just going to be an Oud Bruin (which is not a bad thing if it does!).

Here is my potential recipe:


OG: 1.061
FG: 1.015
IBU: 31
Color: 34L

8# Pale
1# Smoked
0.75# Chocolate
0.75# Caramel 120L
0.5# Special Roast
0.5# Extra Special

1oz Amarillo (10 min)
1oz Challenger (10 min)
1oz Challenger (5 min)
1oz Northern Brewer (5 min)

Wyeast 3278, no starter

A few questions:
1) What do you think of this amount of smoked malt with the wild flavors?
2) I am really unclear about IBUs and wild yeast/bugs--some recipes are under 10 for the lacto, some are 40+ without problems... how should I understand IBUs and wild fermentation activity, and what to look for without killing off all of the bacteria?

TNGabe

Recipes 

My first impulse is to try and tell you that this recipe looks like a train wreck, but maybe I'm just small minded and you are a genius. You should brew this.

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igotsand

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That's a lot of smoked malt...
A little goes a long ways.
I would cut that to .25 or .50 lbs...
Igotsand

bovineblitz

Recipes 

smoky sour sounds really odd to me.

WilliamWS

Recipes 

I've had a couple of sour beers that had some smoked malt, though not a particularly dark one. They were going for historical styles I believe, not bad. I think you'll be fine with 1lb if going with beechwood smoked (rauch) malt. Some of the others like the cherrywood and esp. peat are more agressive and I don't think would work very well in any amount.

If I was inclined to brew something like this I'd probably cut the chocolate back to 6-8 ounces, add another moderate-dark caramel malt (1/2lb c80 maybe) and maybe cut the ibu's to 25ish. Also, you might try pitching some JP dregs or something similar in addition.
It won't really be a robust porter but I think it could be tasty.

Yellow_Boots

Recipes 

I appreciate the feedback. To TNGabe, I get that a lot! My wife says it more or less typifies my brewing style. I think the smoky sour idea is novel, and something I have yet to see someone else pull off, so I am willing to try it out and hope for the best. My greatest enjoyment in homebrewing has been to take what is accepted and proven and change those concepts just enough to make them spectacular and memorable. To WilliamMS' point, I love using Caramel 120 for its raisiny, dark fruit contribution, which I think only shines in sour ales, but I see your point with reducing and changing the dark malt contributions. Maybe I'll cook up some candi syrup nice and dark and toss that in, too. I'm not sure. I am guessing that most people gloss my Brewtoad account and think "wahaaaaaat?" but I'm all about that.

BryanThompson

Recipes 

I have been wanting to brew a Flanders Red with cherry smoked malt for a while. I say go for it. If it doesn't turn out well it would still probably work great for cooking. Keep us updated.

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Primary: Three years of Lambics about to be blended for a Gueuze, Sour Brown Ale from Black IPA second runnings, Epic Flemish Brown waiting to go into a bourbon barrel
Secondary:None
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WilliamWS

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I think just the opposite is true. Most beers throughout history would have been somewhat smokey and somewhat sour.

WilliamWS

Recipes 

I wasn't suggesting getting rid of the C120, I was suggesting some additional crystal. I suggested that because 1) you wanted something porter-like but chances are you're going to get more attenuation than you'd want in a porter (you also might consider a touch of oats for mouth feel) and 2) because the smoke will add a touch of astringency that a little extra sweetness will help balance.
I don't think I'd do the candi syrup because your attenuation is already going to be really high and the candi will just increase it. I'd think you'd want this beer left with a little body.

TANSTAAFB

Recipes 

I agree with several of these points and have a couple opinions of mine own! I have only done a couple of sours, but I have been doing a lot of reading and learned a few things from my brews. I should note that while I LOVE subtle, tart, Bretty, funky, dry sour beers, I'm not a fan of the super sour, punch you in the palate, vinegary brews. I think you need to restrain the IBUs. Bitter and sour are like 13 year olds at homecoming...they are awkward and just don't dance well together! I think the crystal could give a little residual sweetness that will balance the dry, tart nature of this beer. Adding sugar is not necessary when you are already going to have high attenuation, but the flavors will come through. I would definitely use some oats or flaked/torrified wheat to help mouthfeel. I would also go lower on the smoked malt-if you don't think it has enough smokey character you can bump up next time, but if it is too smokey it will overpower the other flavors. I try to experiment with only one or at most two variables at a time. If this is your first sour try to keep it simple and then tweak from there. Or say F it and brew whatever you like and let us know how it turns out!

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Primary: Apfelwein, St. Paul Porter, Colorado Cream Ale, Saccharomyces' Belgian Pale Ale, 1gal BPA pitched w/ dregs from Russian River Consecration and 1 w/ Supplication
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Future: The Wookiee and the Ewok, Fender Bender Amber