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Old 08-27-2009, 05:01 PM   #11
ChrisKennedy
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That is another thing about using Lacto. It seems so damned variable.

With sour beers more than any other beer, it is all about personal experience. I mean, we could talk for hours about our processes, our experiences, our equipment, and STILL not figure out why your sourness took months to develop and mine took weeks.

The worst part is, who knows how variable the commercial bugs themselves are. Hell, according to the Babble Belt, the White Labs Brett C isn't even a pure culture.

So yeah, personal experience, wait it out, see how it develops, make more, see how those develop, come up with your own experiences, and then share them with us and donate to the developing pool of knowledge concerning these bugs.



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Old 08-27-2009, 07:52 PM   #12
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FWIW Ive had far better luck souring a berliner with dregs from calabaza blanca than with using the WY/WL strains, Ive found both to be seriously lacking in what I expect from lactic bacteria

I also have to agree with chris about the sourness, lactobacillus should be producing lactic acid very soon upon being added to the wort, especially the WY/WL versions as both are according to WY/WL homofermentative, so if your wort dropped to 1008 there had to be lactic acid in there, dunno why the weird taste, maybe you were tasting the bacteria in suspension?

Lambics dont have as large of a contribution from lactobacillus bacteria, instead pedio are producing the lions share of lactic acid and they take awhile to get going, thats why it takes longer for the sourness to develop

Evan - Id say you should give the lemon juice a shot, at least in a glass or two, you may be pleasantly surprised

I do agree about letting it sit awhile though, I mean afterall we are dealing with unpredictable biology here and you never can tell how things will end up, I also thing that a berliner with a big of age is much better than a really fresh one. aging allows some of the meaty wheatiness to fade and allows the beer to really come together



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Old 08-28-2009, 10:36 PM   #13
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Though it's only been two weeks, I really think/thought that there should be some sort of idea about sourness. I made this beer to be kegged within a month and at this rate, there will be zero sour by that time and I won't be happy. So two more weeks of unhappy is not looking good.

Since I think that I killed off my culture though and might well just make another to confirm that I did it incorrectly, I will assume that I got the starter too warm and it didn't produce any lacto.

Also, I did try the sour mash technique, though didn't utilize the fruits of it. I wanted to make sure that this culture worked and hindsight is somewhat kicking me in the ass.

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Old 08-30-2009, 01:45 AM   #14
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Well, if you designed a sour beer to be ready to drink in a month, then I'd say you were asking too much. I've never heard of a b-weisse that was ready to drink in a month! Exactly how warm did you get your starter? You're making assumptions that don't need to be made. IIWY, I'd leave this batch alone and make another. I'd bet that in a couple months, it's sour. If I'm wrong, well, all you do is add some lactic acid and there you are. Honestly, I think it's harder to kill a lacto culture than you think. I pitched about a quarter of a WL tube, no starter, into my 1.032 OG b-weisse wort (w/ no saccharomyces!), and the next morning, I had a thick head of bubbles. In 2 days, it took it from 1.032 to 1.008. All this from a quarter of a tube that was probably a year old. So unless you boiled your damn culture, I'm skeptical of this whole "I killed it!" line of thinking.

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Old 09-02-2009, 03:22 AM   #15
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I agree with Evan! that it's pretty hard to kill the lacto unintentionally.

Time is your friend, Grasshopper. You're a winemaker, you should know that.

OTOH if you need to have the beer done for an event, cheat and add lactic acid, learn your lesson and move on.

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Old 09-03-2009, 09:59 PM   #16
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Although I'm a noob of sorts, I made an extract Berliner about 6 weeks ago. I couldn't find an extract recipe so I created my own. After reading about a few peoples not to their taste experiences online, I decided to skip the lactobacillus altogether and added 70 mL lactic acid at kegging (5 gallon batch). It tasted a bit off at first but after about 2 weeks, it has come around and now I'm digging it. Just a data point if you will...

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Old 09-06-2009, 03:18 AM   #17
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My fake berliner is tasting really great now and with the heat out currently, i am digging it completely. I used acidulated malt to complete that one. I have two kegs of the stuff and it will get me through till the lacto version is done.

I keep waiting...

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Old 09-06-2009, 04:14 AM   #18
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Great location tag there, Irrenarzt.

PTN

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Old 09-16-2009, 11:17 AM   #19
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I had the best Berliner Weisse I've ever had this past weekend at the jamboree.

Owner of Granite Cask homebrew shop had it on tap.
He soured the mash with 2lbs of base malt in a steeping bag and set his temp control at 100 degrees and left it for three days.
Said the smell made him almost want to puke.
Ran it off, boiled and fermented out.
Stuff was REALLY good.

I've brewed two and am going this route on the third batch.

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Old 09-16-2009, 12:16 PM   #20
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That's on my docket for when I get home this afternoon, I picked up the grains last week and haven't had a chance to do it yet. So he left it for three days. That's two days longer than I've ever done but I'll go with it and see how it rolls.

Hey Babalu, I've got a Oud Bruin that I think you'll like. I'll have it kegged up for the Masstoberfest, you can try it then.

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