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Old 03-08-2012, 02:06 AM   #1
smokinghole
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Default Turbid mashed lambic and ECY20/01

Well today my friend Mike and I brewed a turbid mashed lambic. What a bitch to brew I must say. I'm just glad we had two people brewing. The mash was super thick and pulling wort out I basically had to siphon it out through a hose because it would have taken an hour to run a gallon out having .3qts/gal the first infusion. For the first strike at a mash temp of 113 I just used my hands to mix the water in with the grain because the temp was low enough and it was just easier to work it like dough. So many hours later we had two pots boiling with old ass hops until we could combine both pots into one.

One fermentor will get ECY01 one fermentor will get ECY20. They will be fermented at two separate houses which will help with the blending and bottling down the road.

One thing I was very surprised with was the mash almost solidified, it looked like and was sitting like a shrunken brick after the sparge in the mash tun. I'm thinking I'll brew another up as long as I have the space in about 8 months or so so we have something to blend with for bottling. This East Coast Yeast stuff is very aggressive and works fast. So these may be quicker than I thought even with the turbid mash. Only time will tell how the turbid mash affected the fermentability of the wort. All in all there were 10oz of aged old hops in the beer.

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Old 03-08-2012, 02:42 AM   #2
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That's fantastic! What kind of lambic is it? I have been really interested in giving it a shot myself. Did you take any pictures by chance?

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Old 03-08-2012, 04:00 AM   #3
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I brewed up my first Lambic with ECY20 about 10 weeks ago. Just took a sample and it's down to 1.009 (calculated refracometer reading, OG: 1.052). The taste is remarkably similar to apple cider as it has quite a bit of clean sour apple tartness with a bit of tannin. While this beer is nowhere close to complete, it's very clear it will not lack for acidity.

Do you have any concerns that the various Saison yeasts will impart a flavor that is not typical of a Lambic?

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Old 03-08-2012, 04:48 AM   #4
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In my lambic solera I did a triple decoction mash the first year. I was happy with the results. This last December when I put in the second year's filling I did a triple decoction mash but added some whole wheat flour in the boil. I'll be interested to see if it adds anything significant in the way of flavor. I'm not sold on the idea of spending so much time trying to do a turbid mash but if the starch addition makes for a better beer than perhaps I will suck it up and get turbid.

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Old 03-08-2012, 10:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebadpun View Post
I brewed up my first Lambic with ECY20 about 10 weeks ago. Just took a sample and it's down to 1.009 (calculated refracometer reading, OG: 1.052). The taste is remarkably similar to apple cider as it has quite a bit of clean sour apple tartness with a bit of tannin. While this beer is nowhere close to complete, it's very clear it will not lack for acidity.

Do you have any concerns that the various Saison yeasts will impart a flavor that is not typical of a Lambic?
I don't really have a concern that ECY20 will make saison flavors. I fermented a saison wort with ECY03 and ECY20 back in November. The sour portion tastes nothing like a saison. The acid and the brett will and did chew through any of the flavor contributions by the saison yeast. I have a oud bruin wort going with the ECY20 right now and the same has happened. It has a slight funkiness that will likely build. It's already pretty sour. So this will be my third fermentation with ECY20.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:44 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Paymygasbill77 View Post
That's fantastic! What kind of lambic is it? I have been really interested in giving it a shot myself. Did you take any pictures by chance?
It's just going to be straight. I will likely bottle some of it as straight if it tastes good and then bottle a lot of it as a gueuze. I will not be blending with fruits likely. I like fruit versions but I love just plain funky sour gueuze and lambic.
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReverseApacheMaster View Post
In my lambic solera I did a triple decoction mash the first year. I was happy with the results. This last December when I put in the second year's filling I did a triple decoction mash but added some whole wheat flour in the boil. I'll be interested to see if it adds anything significant in the way of flavor. I'm not sold on the idea of spending so much time trying to do a turbid mash but if the starch addition makes for a better beer than perhaps I will suck it up and get turbid.
I do turbid mashes precisely because I want to lengthen my brew day. Sour beers are going to age for so long and you really only play a part in their creation on brew day. Plus it is a new challenge breaking up the monotony of single infusion mashes.
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:40 PM   #8
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I think single infusion mashes are good for making standard American and English (with most American styles are based on) beers.

For the mystical beers of historic fame like Lambics, Trappist ales, Saisons, Czech Pils, German Bocks....I think it is necessary to use something other than a single infusion unless that's all the brewery does. From what I know after doing extensive reading and research most of the most famous beers of the world are not single infusions. I do not believe melanodin malt replaces decoctions, I do not think sugar is a good replacement a proper mash paired with the right yeast and other microbes.

I got into this hobby for the ability to make comparable examples of beers that I'd have to pay $100+ for a case. I think I'm finally producing such beers after two years and that is mostly due a refusal of the current conventional wisdom. That being, in my opinion, single infusions and specialty grains to make up for intensive mash procedures and proper fermentation timelines. I don't brew in this manner. The only time I do single infusion is for English or American styles of beer. I prefer to use base malts as much as possible and limit specialty grains. It wasn't until very recently in brewing history that the variety of malts have been available to the brewer. Now i'm not denouncing their place because they are like spices in the culinary world. However I think before you walk you have to learn how to crawl with a specific style of beer. All to often homebrewers are drawn into the more/bigger is better approach, but take shortcuts with single infusions.

Turbid mashing is I think needed because of the molecular effects it likely has on the sugars and starches in the mash. A single infusion is not subjecting the carbohydrates to the same temperatures and pressures as a turbid mash. So I think to best emulate a lambic you need to do a turbid mash.

I'm going to get off my soap box now, because I need to go on a beer run!

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Old 03-08-2012, 02:27 PM   #9
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well stated!

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Old 03-08-2012, 02:57 PM   #10
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I completely agree. English beers I would lump in with the others, because I enjoy bitters, Ipa's, and the like that use a base malt and brewers sugar. I no longer use any specialty malts in these two.

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