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Old 09-29-2009, 02:30 AM   #1
Indiana Red
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Default Suggestions on my upcoming 1st pLambic

I have been reading all I can find on HB "Lambics" and have started to formulate my plan/recipe.
I am going the route of making a plain basic ale, 65/35 inc a little Honey malt, Belgian caravienne, and a touch of Dextrine just to make it a little interesting. probly using WLP001 at first and adding the 3278 "Lambic blend" along with about 7 lbs of commercial raspberry puree' after primary is about done.
I realize that there is a lot of latitude in methods and processes depending on your commitment to authenticity, but this is the level I am comfortable with at this point in my HB "carreer". I've "aged' a few ounces of a Hal/Saz/Fug, mix via the 4 hr 200F oven and they are a shadow of their former self, I must say. Still pale green, but smell more like hay than hops.

Given this method and plan, I have a few questions:

Would a belgian yeast be more appropriate for the primary phase? or would the long souring "secondary" phase negate that difference?

How long should the fruit be in there b4 racking it off for long term "souring'

If I want a "moderate" souring effect but still a big raspberry flavor, (think a slight Lindemenns effect) does that mean I will need to add the fruit at like 6 months and then halt somehow the beasties' activity shorlty after?

Most of my confusion has to do with timing of the various major events during the fermentation.

Been HBing for a few years and am excited to try something so different. Ive had "real" lambics before and I can appreciate them, but they are a bit farther than I want to go, for this project.

Thanks for your input/ideas/critiques.

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Old 09-29-2009, 04:02 AM   #2
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If you are aiming for a Lindaman's Framboise style beer it will be kinda different then a normal sour beer. Typical lambic blends will eat up all the sugars leaving your beer really dry and tart/sour, your beer will probably end up closer to Oud Beersel fruit levels if you've had those beers. For Lindamans you need to leave the beer sweet in the end so you needs lots of unfermentables, most likely Lactose sugar, and a lot of it. I'm not sure of the sour yeast strain you're using, but I believe Brett C can ferment lactose sugar, so if you are trying to use lactose to achieve the sweetness maybe check what strain of brett the lambic blend uses.
Recently I did a beer similar to Lindaman's Framboise, but just used acidulated malt to get the tart twang and a neutral ale yeast to ferment. I added a lot of Lactose sugar in the finish to leave the beer sweet enough to achieve the Lindamans sweet fruit taste and bring out the fruit flavor from the berries.

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Old 09-29-2009, 04:19 AM   #3
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if you want it to get nice and sour, skip the wlp001, primary with the lambic blend (it wont really get nice and sour the otherway) let it sit ~1yr, at this point add raspberries and let sit at least a few months if not another year

Now lets get back to your ?'s

1. No, the bugs will alter the profile and you wont really have much intact from the sacch yeast, in fact I really suggest skipping wlp001 or any other yeast and just pitching the lambic blend

2. Do not rack, lambics need the yeast cake for proper flavor development, the brett/pedio etc will utilize the yeast cells as a source of food and nutrients

3. if you want lindemans, make a wheat beer with a low hop rate to leave it sweetish, add lactic acid and raspberry puree to get a beer that respembles lindemans

from the last sentence in your post it doesnt seem you want the flavors that are in lambics, i really suggest trying other methods to get something closer to lindemans, by pitching lambic bugs you wont have anything close to resembling lindemans, and if you bottle too early the bugs will continue to work and youll have exploding bottles in your closet

Also, lactose is fermentable by pedio, and lactic bacteria

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Old 09-29-2009, 02:22 PM   #4
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OK, well my curiosity is too high on the "lambic" process but I still love the intense fruit sweet/tart flavor of the psudos, so I guess I will do both. Thanks for the advice. I will skip the ale yeast and "go for it" with the lambic blend right off the bat on the other one. I'll take my "sour raspberry beer"/lactic acid questions to another thread.
Do you have recommendations for the grain bill on that or does the sourness kind of trump any variations in a plain old 65/35 2-row and wheat mix? Unmalted wheat seems to be a tenant and popular recommendation here.

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Last edited by Indiana Red; 09-29-2009 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:11 PM   #5
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I made a sour with mixed berries and it turned out great.
1 gallon test batch

.75 lb two row
.75 lb white wheat
mashed together in 1.5 qts or so for 1 hour. strained wort into small stock pot and let cool. once it passed 110 on the cool down i threw in a handful of two row and forgot about it for two days.

then after the two day souring period, i repeated the mash, boiling this wort with ten hop pellets (wasn't sure how much to use for a gallon). during the boil with twenty minutes left, I strained the first sour wort into the boil to kill bugs. cooled. racked into gallon jug, topped off with defrosted mixed berries (blueberries, raspberries, blackberries). pitched us-05 and fermented/bottled as usual. it tasted amazing and got rave reviews. I wish I had made more of it.

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