Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Lambic & Wild Brewing > strains of Brett
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-17-2013, 02:21 PM   #1
greggor
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Eden Utah
Posts: 83
Default strains of Brett

I have a general question about the strains of Brett
Listening to The Brewing Network show about Brett they discuss 4 main strains of Brett 1. Cereveasees 2. Bruxellensis 3. Claussenii 4.Anomalus
It this accurate?
As I look at strains available from both Wyeast and WLP I see a strain called Berttanomyces lambicus; Is this just a trademarked term of one of the above identified strains (if so which one) or is this a fifth strain? Just trying to sort out what is available stran wise. If there is any detailed info available on the web please point me in that direction.

__________________
greggor is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2013, 04:16 PM   #2
sweetcell
Swollen Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
sweetcell's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,063
Liked 653 Times on 486 Posts
Likes Given: 254

Default

there is no "Brett Cereveasees". there is Saccharomyces cerevisiae, AKA "normal" brewing yeast.

wikipedia lists the following brett species:
B. anomalus
B. bruxellensis
B. claussenii
B. custersianus
B. lambicus
B. naardenensis
B. nanus
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brettanomyces)

note that anomalus and claussenii have identical mitochondrial DNA, so some folks lumps them together as one species. not all on that list are used for brewing.

and just as there are wide variations within S. cerevisiae (belgian abbey, US-05 and hefewiezen yeast are all S. cerevisiae but behave very differently), there is variation within a given brett species. it's false to think that "brett B is brett B". folks here often speak of having a preference for Wyeast vs. White Lab's version of a given yeast - because they're different. our knowledge of brett is a LOT less than that of sacc.

__________________
.
What hops should I grow? Hop grower's comparison table. Looking for cheap honey?

Drinking: a farmhouse with ECY08 & brett blend
Fermenting: wet-hopped harvest ale x 2, sour cherry mead, imperial chocolate stout and its not-so-small second runnings beer
Aging: oud bruin & a few other sours, acerglyn, a BDSA
sweetcell is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2013, 04:40 PM   #3
MrOrange
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MrOrange's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 298
Liked 29 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 45

Default

I have also read that B. Lambicus is a strain of B. Bruxellensis

__________________
If God wanted us to filter our beer, he wouldn't have given us livers
MrOrange is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2013, 04:47 PM   #4
sweetcell
Swollen Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
sweetcell's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,063
Liked 653 Times on 486 Posts
Likes Given: 254

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrOrange View Post
I have also read that B. Lambicus is a strain of B. Bruxellensis
"The genus Dekkera can be used interchangeably with Brettanomyces when describing species; Dekkera are the telemorphic (spore-forming) versions of the Brettanomyces species. Dekkera claussenii differs from other Dekkera species in its lack of blastese and inability to ferment lactose. [3]

Examination of the Mitochondrial DNA of the genus Brettanomyces showed identical genomes in three pairs of species: Dekkera bruxellensis/Brettanomyces lambicus, Brettanomyces abstinens/Brettanomyces custerianus and Brettanomyces anomalus/Brettanomyces clausenii. It is suspected that the genus Dekkera has similar taxonomical redundancies." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brettanomyces_Claussenii)

if lambicus is indeed a strain of bruxellensis, that would really show how much variation there is within a species.
__________________
.
What hops should I grow? Hop grower's comparison table. Looking for cheap honey?

Drinking: a farmhouse with ECY08 & brett blend
Fermenting: wet-hopped harvest ale x 2, sour cherry mead, imperial chocolate stout and its not-so-small second runnings beer
Aging: oud bruin & a few other sours, acerglyn, a BDSA
sweetcell is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2013, 09:06 PM   #5
TimT
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 136
Liked 8 Times on 7 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

I believe Brux and anomalus are the only species recognized nowadays by taxonomists (if that even matters). Wyeast and whitelabs tack on the other names to differentiate and perhaps just out of the past in a case or two. Which is a mess really as the wy brett L. is completely different that the white labs brett L. Both are brux AFAIK, so is brett trois.

__________________
TimT is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2013, 10:05 PM   #6
levifunk
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 197
Liked 39 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 39

Default

Dekkera anomala and Dekkera bruxellensis are the 2 species that all of the commercially available (at the moment) Brett strains fall under.

For example, within Dekkera bruxellensis you have both B. bruxellensis and B. lambicus (and others). Within B. lambicus you have the Wyeast variant and the White Labs variant. Although labeled the same, the two variants are very different. Much like the variants of Saccharomyces Cerevisiae result in the difference between California Common yeast and Scotch Ale yeast.

Brandon Jones (Embrace the Funk) and I have talked to some labs and are putting together a Brett Strain Guide.

__________________
funkfactorygeuzeria.com
levifunk is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2013, 10:14 PM   #7
TNGabe
Feedback Score: 16 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,460
Liked 2166 Times on 1464 Posts
Likes Given: 2138

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by levifunk View Post
Dekkera anomala and Dekkera bruxellensis are the 2 species that all of the commercially available (at the moment) Brett strains fall under.

For example, within Dekkera bruxellensis you have both B. bruxellensis and B. lambicus (and others). Within B. lambicus you have the Wyeast variant and the White Labs variant. Although labeled the same, the two variants are very different. Much like the variants of Saccharomyces Cerevisiae result in the difference between California Common yeast and Scotch Ale yeast.

Brandon Jones (Embrace the Funk) and I have talked to some labs and are putting together a Brett Strain Guide.
Are custersianus, nanus, and naardenensis seperate species?
__________________

Why spend 5 minutes reading when you can just start another thread?

TNGabe is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2013, 10:19 PM   #8
levifunk
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 197
Liked 39 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 39

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNGabe View Post
Are custersianus, nanus, and naardenensis seperate species?
yes. I will be publishing the guide this evening.
__________________
funkfactorygeuzeria.com
levifunk is offline
Oldsock Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2013, 10:23 PM   #9
sweetcell
Swollen Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
sweetcell's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,063
Liked 653 Times on 486 Posts
Likes Given: 254

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by levifunk View Post
yes. I will be publishing the guide this evening.
awesome, and thanks for your work. can't wait to read it. if not too much to ask, please post a link to it in this thread.
__________________
.
What hops should I grow? Hop grower's comparison table. Looking for cheap honey?

Drinking: a farmhouse with ECY08 & brett blend
Fermenting: wet-hopped harvest ale x 2, sour cherry mead, imperial chocolate stout and its not-so-small second runnings beer
Aging: oud bruin & a few other sours, acerglyn, a BDSA
sweetcell is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-17-2013, 11:18 PM   #10
BrasseurGeorges
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 126
Liked 14 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

Correct, Brett is the anamorph of Dekkera, so it's the one we're interested in as brewers. Known species are B. bruxellensis, anomalus, custersianus, nanus, and naardenensis. Think of those in the same way as you would S. cerevisiae (standard brewer's yeast), bayanus (champagne yeast), etc. Then there are strain names, like "Trois" or "Lambicus" for different brux strains, "Clausenii" for an anomalus strain, same idea as the various S. cerevisiae strains we typically use. Seems we've just begun to scratch the surface, and is made all the more interesting if the genetic complexity of brett as compared to sacch translates to a wider variety of flavors and properties.

__________________
BrasseurGeorges is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Repitching Brett from a 100% Brett fermented beer Coff Lambic & Wild Brewing 11 05-29-2014 01:40 AM
Brett strains Aschecte Lambic & Wild Brewing 17 04-12-2012 12:43 AM
Adding Brett to a Brett beer Calder Lambic & Wild Brewing 4 09-28-2011 04:39 PM
Brett L. fermentation question for 100% Brett L. beer asterix404 Fermentation & Yeast 7 03-17-2011 05:30 PM
Secondary Brett Fermentation - Brett Starter? toman8r Fermentation & Yeast 5 01-20-2010 01:06 AM