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Old 08-30-2013, 05:58 PM   #1
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Default Stepping up Jolly Pumpkin and Crooked Stave dregs

I was recently able to sample a few great funky beers - jolly pumpkin baudelaire io saison, crooked stave surette saison, and crooked stave st. bretta witbier. I ended up harvesting the various dregs and decided to try and grow them up. I made around a gallon of 1.020 starter wort , added the dregs to various jars, and have been swirling them. The JP (brewed with rose hips, rose petals, hibiscus and I'm thinking their typical belgian yeast in the primary and brett in secondary) and St. Bretta (100% brett fermentation [guessing either brett mixture or "house" brett]) starters took off in about 48 hours. The Surette (brett and lacto) has yet to show any visible signs of fermentation after about 4 days.

Has anybody tried to build up Surette dregs before and, if so, what kind of lag time did you have before things started? I'm wondering if the lacto is causing the slow start or if I just didn't get enough dregs to build up.

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Old 08-30-2013, 09:45 PM   #2
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I have no idea if this is similar, but with Wyeast's lambic blend (which is brett, lacto and some other stuff), "Propagation of this culture is not recommended and will result in a change of the proportions of the individual components." You might find it's hit and miss. 2 out of 3 ain't bad though Good luck!

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Old 08-30-2013, 10:21 PM   #3
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I took a whiff of the starter and I'm getting a lemon citrus aroma with hints of Brett funk. That makes me think something's happening even if I don't see visible signs of fermentation. I'm thinking just give it some time to see what happens. Worst case, I decant and pour the dregs into my sour beer dreg mix.

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Old 09-02-2013, 05:51 PM   #4
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Most, if not all JPs beers go into their inoculated barrels, so you probably have a mix of Sacc, Brett, Lacto, and Pedio in there. The Sacc may or may not be viable.

You probably will not get any Lacto sourness out of the Surette dregs. The Lacto slows down in the presence of alcohol. The Brett will probably start first, and hinder the growth of the Lacto.

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Old 09-05-2013, 02:31 AM   #5
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I've plated out La Roja on plates meant for the isolation of yeast am bacteria, as while I got some really good strains of bacteria, the yeast plates were loaded with saccharomyces. Just an FYI if you're using dregs. Might be a ton of saccharomyces with a little brettanomyces, lactobacillus and pediococcus.

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Old 09-05-2013, 02:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biobrewer View Post
I've plated out La Roja on plates meant for the isolation of yeast am bacteria, as while I got some really good strains of bacteria, the yeast plates were loaded with saccharomyces. Just an FYI if you're using dregs. Might be a ton of saccharomyces with a little brettanomyces, lactobacillus and pediococcus.
Do you have the ability to distinguish pedio from lacto? I'd always assumed JP beers had no pedio, as I've read that Bam only spends two weeks in the barrel. I did recently see someone post that they'd opened an Oro de Calabaza and it was a little buttery. Of course pedio makes tons of diacetyl, but isn't neccessarily the culprit.
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Old 09-05-2013, 02:55 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by TNGabe

Do you have the ability to distinguish pedio from lacto? I'd always assumed JP beers had no pedio, as I've read that Bam only spends two weeks in the barrel. I did recently see someone post that they'd opened an Oro de Calabaza and it was a little buttery. Of course pedio makes tons of diacetyl, but isn't neccessarily the culprit.
A microscope is pretty telling. Pediococcus are cocci that commonly occur in pairs of 2 or 4 (tetrads), while lactobacillus is rod shaped.

Looking back at my strains and the microscopy I did, I only got a pediococcus strain from La Roja. No lactobacillus.
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:18 PM   #8
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A microscope is pretty telling. Pediococcus are cocci that commonly occur in pairs of 2 or 4 (tetrads), while lactobacillus is rod shaped.

Looking back at my strains and the microscopy I did, I only got a pediococcus strain from La Roja. No lactobacillus.
Cool, thanks. My love of wild beers is wearing away at my disinterest in biology and I'm hoping to get into some bug farming soon.
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:11 PM   #9
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I tried to propagate some dregs from a bottle of Orval and am having similar results. Started with about 100mL of wort into the bottle, let that go for a day, then transferred to 500mL wort in a larger container.

Its been on a stir plate for a couple of days and am also yet to see any sort of activity at all...however when I turn the stir plate off I do get a nice amount of particulates settling out on the bottom. Hoping this is yeast.

I am going to let it keep going for a few days. But do you guys normally see visible fermentation with Brett? Did I just not save enough of the dregs?

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Old 09-12-2013, 05:15 PM   #10
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I tried to propagate some dregs from a bottle of Orval and am having similar results. Started with about 100mL of wort into the bottle, let that go for a day, then transferred to 500mL wort in a larger container.

Its been on a stir plate for a couple of days and am also yet to see any sort of activity at all...however when I turn the stir plate off I do get a nice amount of particulates settling out on the bottom. Hoping this is yeast.

I am going to let it keep going for a few days. But do you guys normally see visible fermentation with Brett? Did I just not save enough of the dregs?
You stepped it up too fast. Also, what was grav on the wort? You want 1.015ish for the first step.
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