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Old 01-21-2013, 03:00 PM   #1
Calder
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Default Sour Stout

I'm thinking of making a sour stout, using the Berliner souring method:
- Sour the wort with lacto
- Once sour, boil, add hops, and ferment as normal.

Anyone done anythying like this?

Questions, would like to know thoughts of others.

- Would this be too sour for a stout? Would it be better to sour half the wort and then mix after souring?
- Would this go better with a low alcohol 'light' stout, or would a heavy stout be better.

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Old 01-21-2013, 03:14 PM   #2
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Well, The Bruery makes a beer called Tart of Darkness, which they call a sour stout, but their stouts tend to be not really have any roast/coffee/ash flavors at all, and instead be sweeter with lots of chocolate flavor. So, not really a stout in the traditional sense. So IMO it's probably more like souring an English brown ale or similar. That's the only commercial one I know of, although I'm sure there's more out there.

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Old 01-21-2013, 03:27 PM   #3
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Jester King has a sour stout called Funk Metal which is about 9%. What I would do is just brew a stout normally and ferment it regularly then after its done move it secondary and add lacto/sour mix and let it ride. four sourness, it depends on how sour you want it. You can break it up and sour a part of it and mix to your liken. in my opinion with a sour stout I would want too much roast to it, just slightly. The sourness will cancel some of the stout qualities out. I have sour ten fidy and almost puked. It was pretty bad taste like sour milk. Good luck. I might give a soured stout a go soon myself.

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Old 01-21-2013, 05:24 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisturbdChemist View Post
Jester King has a sour stout called Funk Metal which is about 9%. What I would do is just brew a stout normally and ferment it regularly then after its done move it secondary and add lacto/sour mix and let it ride.
My plan to sour it first is due to the IBUs. Most souring bacteria will not work in highly hopped wort/beer. It will also produce a beer quicker.

It will only be a 3 gallon batch because that is what I am set up to work with lacto with and keep it warm for souring. Might do it twice, and add some Brett to the second one, and let it go for 6 to 12 months.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:55 AM   #5
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I soured the hop-less second runnings of a smoked rye porter. It was pretty good, but I'm glad I didn't make 5 gallons of it. If I were to do what you planned, I'd probably aim for a stout that was malty and low in IBUs, although I've no idea about what ABV would be best. Souring part of the batch and blending certainly allows you a way around the variability of these things. If you go that route, I'd split your batch before boiling and hopping, and probably split it more like 3:1 regular:sour than 50-50.

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Old 01-22-2013, 12:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calder View Post
My plan to sour it first is due to the IBUs. Most souring bacteria will not work in highly hopped wort/beer. It will also produce a beer quicker.

It will only be a 3 gallon batch because that is what I am set up to work with lacto with and keep it warm for souring. Might do it twice, and add some Brett to the second one, and let it go for 6 to 12 months.
I just mentioned it because thats what I did with my Saison. I took a gallon after it was done and soured it. It was est. to be about 42 IBUs and I had no problem souring it. It just an experiment and wanted to see if I can do it. I thrilled that I succeeded in making a awesome sour. It did take a while but I tasted it often and oaked it and when I felt it was ready I bottled it. There is always more than one way to do everything so good luck in the adventure.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:57 PM   #7
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I pitched my house souring culture into two gallons of a chocolate milk stout this weekend. Not totally sure how it will turn out, but the bugs usually give a really nice tart cherry taste and smell, so I'm holding out hope.

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Old 01-26-2013, 01:19 AM   #8
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For a test, I took a bottle of my Berliner and mixed it with a bottle of Guinness. The sour totally took prominence over the roast flavors of the stout. .... Too sour, and not enough stout character.

This experiment has got to be a heavy stout, and only half the batch soured. As KK mentioned, maybe 50/50 is too much (got to think about it).

Right now thinking of:
- Designing the beer to be about 1.060, 40 IBUs with lots of oats.
- Souring half the batch, Berliner style (no hops)
- Brewing and fermenting the dark grains and hops in a separate half batch. Probably use PacMan (house yeast).
- Mix both batches after 'Berliner' part sours, and ferment out.
- Bottle half, and add souring bugs (some house sour mix) to the other half and leave a year.

Could make a couple of interesting beers.

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Old 01-26-2013, 03:58 AM   #9
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In designing the recipe, I'd be careful of too much roast or bitter/astringent character from dark roasted malts. I soured about 2 gallons of extra runoff from a strong porter (modeled after Founder's Porter) that was 2% roasted barley and 10% chocolate malt. I used Jolly Pumpkin dregs; the beer is 10 months old and sitting at 1.012. At this point, it's got plenty of sourness and some nice brett funk, but is too roasty and bitter, which clashes with the lactic acid IMO. If I were to design a recipe, I'd opt for using debittered black or a carafa malt to minimize the roast and bitter / astringent flavors. Just my 2 cents.

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Old 02-04-2014, 08:36 PM   #10
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I broke off one gallon of stout from my most recent batch. I then boiled a little over a pint of sour for a few minutes to kill the critters and then added it to the fermenter right before pitching.

I'm concerned that the pH will be low enough to inhibit proper yeast function and that maybe I should have boiled and added the sour after primary fermentation, but the airlock is bubbling and we will see.

Both alchohol and hops inhibit souring bacterias' functions so I don't think that souring already fermented stout is the most efficient way to go - but I've never tried it and maybe it is delicious. I know that the opposite is sometimes done: pitching yeast into soured beer that has been pasteurized.

Hit me up in 5 weeks if you are curious and I will let you know how the sour/pre-fermented-stout blending worked out.

Cheers!

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