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Old 08-24-2011, 09:44 PM   #1
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Default Sour Saison Help

Hey guys,

I have an excellent blueberry saison recipe that I brew regularly and I want to make a sour version of this for a friend's wedding coming up in about a year. I've never brewed with any funk before, but I have been dying to lately.

I usually use WLP565 to ferment this brew down pretty low (~1.003). I usually add the blueberries to the secondary and then rack the beer right on them to kick off a secondary fermentation. I want to add the funk on top of the blueberries and then just rack the beer right on top of that and let it do it's thing for 6 months or more.

My main question is about which strain to use, since I've never used any of them before. Should I go with a belgian sour mix like WLP655 or stick with a brett strain like WLP650? Also, should I make any modifications to the recipe in order to balance with the funky flavors, like step down IBUs, etc?

Thanks guys.

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Old 08-24-2011, 09:54 PM   #2
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Usually what I use (microbes wise) is determined by how funky I want it to get. That said, I'm very partial to ferments done with brett strains. If you rack to secondary on the berries and pitch brett with that there wont be much for it to munch on, so maybe add in some more complex sugars that the sach can't eat and allow the brett to feed on that as it's aging on the berries.

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Old 08-24-2011, 09:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankstoneline View Post
Usually what I use (microbes wise) is determined by how funky I want it to get. That said, I'm very partial to ferments done with brett strains.
So, would the sour mix make it more funky than a purely brett strain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankstoneline View Post
If you rack to secondary on the berries and pitch brett with that there wont be much for it to munch on, so maybe add in some more complex sugars that the sach can't eat and allow the brett to feed on that as it's aging on the berries.
If I added, say, 100g of maltodextrin powder at the end of the boil, do you think that would do the trick?

Thanks for the help.
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnewcp View Post
So, would the sour mix make it more funky than a purely brett strain?



If I added, say, 100g of maltodextrin powder at the end of the boil, do you think that would do the trick?

Thanks for the help.


Question 1: in my experience, I find the brett to be funky, while something like wyeast's roselare is more sour/tart. Different tastes. If you want a comparison and have access to a good bottle shop (and dont mind spending some cash on "research") find a bottle of Boulevard's saison-brett or the bruery does a saison with brett or Russian river's all brett brew (the name escapes at the moment), and also grab something sour like rodenbach or la folie. then compare the funky charachteristics. A sour mix is going to be more rodenbach/lafolie/russian river mixed culture-ish and the brett will be more like the first couple.

Question 2: When you rack is better left to someone with more experience on the issue than I. I dont have any personal experience that would suggest when to feed the buggers.

As a caveat, most of this is information I've read and I've really only gotten into brewing sour/funky beers recently and the processes have mostly been straightforward 'mash hot, add bugs' type things, so someone else I'm sure can lend a more diverse personal experience answer.
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnewcp View Post
Hey guys,

I have an excellent blueberry saison recipe that I brew regularly and I want to make a sour version of this for a friend's wedding coming up in about a year. I've never brewed with any funk before, but I have been dying to lately.

I usually use WLP565 to ferment this brew down pretty low (~1.003). I usually add the blueberries to the secondary and then rack the beer right on them to kick off a secondary fermentation. I want to add the funk on top of the blueberries and then just rack the beer right on top of that and let it do it's thing for 6 months or more.

My main question is about which strain to use, since I've never used any of them before. Should I go with a belgian sour mix like WLP655 or stick with a brett strain like WLP650? Also, should I make any modifications to the recipe in order to balance with the funky flavors, like step down IBUs, etc?

Thanks guys.
If you want sour and not just funk I'd do a two step mash for a saison. Mash in for like 152 let that go for an 45-60 min. Then pull off enough of the mash boil it and dump it back in to raise the mash to 162 for like 30 min. Then run off into the kettle to denature with no mash out step. This should give you some decent dextrine in the wort. I'd pitch the Wyeast Rosalare blend and let it go. That should give you the sour you'll want. Otherwise you'd realistically have to aerate the beer for transfer to secondary for only brett to produce the sour flavor. With the rosalare you'll get more lactic sourness with brett only oxygenated for souring you'll get primarily acetic. Plus souring with brett using oxygenation is a tricky thing because I can't measure how much oxygen I'd be injecting. There's only so much the brett can use, past that you are oxidizing your beer.

Also don't underestimate the acid content of the blueberries they might provide enough acid in a dry beer like that to give you the tart flavor you're looking for.
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:05 AM   #6
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I was considering using the Belgian sour mix (WLP655) because it seems like the best of both worlds, a little sour a little funk. I've made this recipe without the bugs many times and it's really good. I mostly get spicy from the yeast and just a little bit of tartness. I think a little sour and a little funk would really set it over the top.

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Old 08-26-2011, 11:30 AM   #7
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The belgian sour mix would be great too. I have plans on doing a petite version like this using Bug Farm 5. Then I'll use it to make a sort of lambic or something.

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