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Old 02-19-2014, 01:02 AM   #11
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I added acidulated ,which is pucker your face sour, because I was going for a beer with some serious twang. When I tasted just prior to boiling, it was tart. I'm expecting it to come out more sour after fermentation due to all the sugars being fermented out.

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Old 02-19-2014, 11:17 AM   #12
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I'm not sure if lacto survives the mash, but every resource I've seen says to throw in a handful of unmilled grain after the mash. It works for me.
I would assume it does, right? I've seen/read different methods but my simple mind needs some clarification haha. Does this mean:

a) they mash and drain like normal, then let the grains sit at 100F for X days and then sparge

or

b) they mash like normal, keep the grains and wort together at 100F for X days and then drain and sparge

and

c) (I've read this method before) mash, drain, and sparge like normal and throw a handful of unmilled grains in and hold it at 100F

The reason I ask is that I used spent grains to make a partigyle beer by mashing a second time. I boiled the runoff for 30 minutes and then put a spoonful of those twice mashed grains into the 1 gallon wort I had created. I didn't hold it at 100F though, it's sitting in my closet and holding about 63-65F but I do have fermentation going on that doesn't look like sacc (i.e. no real krausen). It looks more like soap bubbles that have filled the headspace. Smell isn't pleasant, but it isn't rotten/vomit...yet. It's all an experiment, and I'm not against dumping it, I was just curious.
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:21 PM   #13
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For a partigyle beer, you don't need to mash a second time unless you're adding more grain, you can just go ahead and sparge again. Lacto will ferment at cooler temps, it just takes a lot longer. Also, If you have a way to keep oxygen out, you can avoid the fecal and vomit bacterias from taking hold.

My usual sour mash method is to mash like normal (but not sparge yet), add the rest of my water (use a step calculator to get close to 125F), stir well, throw in a handful of uncrushed grain, cover the surface with plastic wrap, wrap the mash tun in blankets and put it next to a space heater for 2-3 days until sour enough (samples are easily pulled from the mash tun using the sparge valve), drain, boil, ferment like normal.

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Old 02-19-2014, 01:37 PM   #14
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Wiki says 93% of a lacto culture dies at 63C (~145F).

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Old 02-19-2014, 11:16 PM   #15
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Wiki says 93% of a lacto culture dies at 63C (~145F).
Even if this is half true, I should probably dump what I have going haha. I'll try again and keep the temps in a better range and flush my vessel with CO2.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:30 PM   #16
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Well, it's not bad. Not nearly as sour as I wanted. Every other aspect is delicious. Malty, raisiny, cherry. Brewed another the same way only I added double the acidulated malt. Doesn't seem to be any more sour. I wonder if souring the mash, as opposed to souring the wort, is a better way to go?

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Old 03-18-2014, 12:08 AM   #17
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I just brewed one yesterday. I mash and batch sparge, chill wort to 110F, transfer to fermenter that I just purged with CO2, purge again after transfereing. Then I add the lacto and let it sit at 110F until it gets tart enough, which is usually 4 or 5 days for me. I don't boil, I just chill to 65F and pitch Cal Ale. At 65 the lacto will pretty much slow to a crawl and your sacch will take over just fine. I've experimented with getting the lacto from grain and from yogurt cultures. This time I'm using cultures from two different yogurts and grain. Also plaining on pitching a big ass starter of Brett B Trois three days into the Cale Ale ferment. I've never tried the White Labs Lacto, but I like the results I get from mixing multiple cultures. I feel like it gives the beer a little more complexity.

There's not really a wrong way to skin this cat, but that method has been pretty reliable for me. I can't stress enough how important it is to flush with CO2 so that you don't get the aforementioned baby diaper causing butyric acid. Beyond that, you should be fine no matter how you decide to go about it.

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