rodenbach dregs

killian · 03-26-2009, 07:49 AM

I have a belgian dark strong that I'm thinking thinking about adding some dregs from a rodenbach to. would the dregs be enough to add some funky characteristics?

Orangevango · 03-26-2009, 04:38 PM

It would be better if you cultured a starter from the dregs I belive, just be aware that anything you use for this beer needs to be extra thoroughly santized afterwards to avoid funkin up your other beers.

killian · 03-27-2009, 06:41 AM

I'm sure building up from a starter would be better but I'm wondering what kind of flavors I might get. I'm thinking I might just keep adding the dregs from each bottle of rodenbach that I drink and add some fresh wort eventually.

kniles38 · 04-01-2009, 02:55 PM

What do you get from the dregs?

Brett or something else?

nealf · 04-01-2009, 03:46 PM

I am guessing you will get not only brett, but also pedio, and some lacto. Are you referring to grand cru or the original? I am interested in hearing the results of this!!

kniles38 · 04-02-2009, 12:20 PM

I used original rodenbach. I just poured out (into a glass) all but about a quarter inch of the beer then put in some DME and water and topped with foil. Has been sitting for a couple days. Doesn't look like much is going on yet.

My plan is to rack off a couple gallons (probly one with a few oak cubes maybe new ones maybe ones that have been soaking in wine for 6 months) of a normal batch (IPA or Porter) I have conditioning onto the rodenbach starter after that gets going and let that sit for a long while.

I really have no idea what I am doing or what I will get, I am just bored with the normal rotation.

**niquejim** · 04-02-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killian

I have a belgian dark strong that I'm thinking thinking about adding some dregs from a rodenbach to. would the dregs be enough to add some funky characteristics?

Quote:

Originally Posted by killian

I'm sure building up from a starter would be better but I'm wondering what kind of flavors I might get. I'm thinking I might just keep adding the dregs from each bottle of rodenbach that I drink and add some fresh wort eventually.

I use the dregs from Orval on my Drunk owl in my pull-down. It takes 4-6+ months for it to do it's work, but is worth it.

If you build up a starter one bug may reproduce quicker than the others so I always just go with the dregs.

**Saccharomyces** · 04-03-2009, 01:02 PM

After pitching a couple batches of wine in the last week, I have been thinking about how we homebrewers are conditioned to the idea you have to have high pitching rates. This doesn't necessarily carry over into winemaking or brewing with bugs.

We learn that the saccharomyces cerevisiae we use for fermenting wort into (regular) beer require a minimal number of generations in the fermenter (10 or fewer) to produce a satisfactory product. The cultivated brewer's yeast is selected for its limited ester production, moderate attenuation, alcohol tolerance, and willingness to flocculate. These strains require high pitching rates so they can grow to sufficient numbers to ferment the wort in a timeframe where contamination doesn't take hold before the reproductive phase is complete, in order to ferment cleanly and completely without becoming overly stressed from a lack of nutrients.

On the other hand, winemaker's yeast is selected for rapid fermentation, alcohol tolerance, high attenuation, and ability to ferment at a wide range of temperatures (most primary fermentations I have seen do not use any temperature control). Since it is selected for rapid fermentation ability, low pitching rates are acceptable as long as there is sufficient oxygen and nitrogen in the must for the yeast to reproduce.

Brettanomyces seems to share more characteristics with wine yeast than beer yeast. Beyond that, if unwanted infections from wild (usually brettanomyces) yeast or lactobacillus are any guide, these bugs are quite good at reproducing rapidly in oxygen-deficient, nutrient-deficient environments where brewer's cultivated saccharomyces cerevisiae isn't.

I wonder if building a starer would have the *opposite* effect of what is intended -- in a nutrient rich environment, the brettanomyces and bacteria which favor an oxygen rich and nutrient rich environment may reproduce more quickly than those which don't. This would cause the overall culture to be dominated by bugs that favor a nutrient rich, high pH, oxygen-rich environment, whereas your beer is a nutrient deficient, alcohol rich, low pH environment devoid of oxygen.

jessup · 12-08-2009, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccharomyces

I wonder if building a starer would have the *opposite* effect of what is intended -- in a nutrient rich environment, the brettanomyces and bacteria which favor an oxygen rich and nutrient rich environment may reproduce more quickly than those which don't. This would cause the overall culture to be dominated by bugs that favor a nutrient rich, high pH, oxygen-rich environment, whereas your beer is a nutrient deficient, alcohol rich, low pH environment devoid of oxygen.

bump for this great point. have you spoken with anyone or had any breakthroughs with this since it was posted last april? i've gotta a starter going with dregs from many diff't brett beers and you seriously got me thinking. hmmmm.

so dregs directly into your aging batches is the best way to go in your opinion-

EDIT: looks like AnOldUR had the same response back from Wyeast themselves:

"Herman,
It is not recommended to make a starter with this blend. You will
definitely throw off the balance of cultures in the blend. Basically,
you will increase the Saccharomyces population w/o increasing any of the
other cultures.
The second technique you listed would be better than a starter, but once
again, you will not be propagating all of the cultures. This time, you
would be increasing the Saccharomyces culture and maybe some of the
lactic acid bacteria.
Let me know if you have other questions.
Jess Caudill "
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/wyeast-brett-fusion-blends-114826/

denimglen · 12-09-2009, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kniles38

I used original rodenbach. I just poured out (into a glass) all but about a quarter inch of the beer then put in some DME and water and topped with foil. Has been sitting for a couple days. Doesn't look like much is going on yet...

I've done the same also. Sat for about a week on the stirplate and nothing happened (well still smelled like fresh wort and no change to the amount of trub/bacteria cake). I don't know if it should have sat longer or the conditions were wrong or something.

I just binned it and bought a smack pack of Roselare and called it a day.