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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Lambic & Wild Brewing > Re-Yeasting (or not) when bottling aged beers
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:25 PM   #11
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I have heard this as well with a sour beer as the ph is drastically lower than a standard beer and a standard Sacch strain will not carbonate due to the ph. for my non-sours I have been re yeasting with the primary strain or a nuetral strain like us-05. I have also recently read that for sours Sacchromyces Bayanan - EC-1118 by llavlin ( I believe that's the spelling ) is a good choice.
I've only bottled one sour so far - not an old beer, but very, very sour and carbed up great with us-05. Didn't measure pH, but I'd guess it's under 3.5.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:34 PM   #12
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I've only bottled one sour so far - not an old beer, but very, very sour and carbed up great with us-05. Didn't measure pH, but I'd guess it's under 3.5.
That's good to know as I have a Flanders red I may just go with us-05 to carb it up. Like I said I never really knew what others are doing, I'm basing my posts on what i have read either from books or just what others here on HBT have said.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:34 PM   #13
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When you do this, do you make a starter? Or just mix in the yeast at the same time as the bottling sugar?

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Old 10-12-2012, 12:45 AM   #14
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When you do this, do you make a starter? Or just mix in the yeast at the same time as the bottling sugar?
I don't make a starter, but I have used harvested sacch slurry once or twice. Usually I use Red Star Pasteur champagne yeast, Red Star Montrachet wine yeast, or Lalvin ec-1118 champagne yeast and let the packet warm in warm water for a bit and add that to my priming sugar in the bottling bucket a bit ahead of time.

I'm still just wondering how everyone adjusts priming sugar calculations for residual CO2 lost/left in solution after a very long aging period?
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:08 AM   #15
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I don't make a starter, but I have used harvested sacch slurry once or twice. Usually I use Red Star Pasteur champagne yeast, Red Star Montrachet wine yeast, or Lalvin ec-1118 champagne yeast and let the packet warm in warm water for a bit and add that to my priming sugar in the bottling bucket a bit ahead of time.

I'm still just wondering how everyone adjusts priming sugar calculations for residual CO2 lost/left in solution after a very long aging period?
Personally just by guess work. I know about how warm my sours get over the summer (upper 70s to low 80s) and usually account for that temperature plus 5-10% extra priming sugar. Unless you're talking about gueuze sour beers usually aren't crazy carbonated so even on the low side of the typical ale will get you appropriate levels of carbonation.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:12 AM   #16
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I bottled my first batch of sours in July and used half a packet of EC-1118 that I rehydrated and added a little sugar to. Once it got a little foamy I poured it into the bottling bucket then racked on top. All the bottles were carbed in three weeks to 4.5 volumes. I'm not certain if this is the best way to re-yeast but it worked well enough to do again.

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Old 10-12-2012, 02:47 PM   #17
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You know I think I know why I'm a bit confused on this topic.... I know brett as well as other bacteria will consume All sugars less a small amount for survival ( brett will never eat all sugar as they know to leave some for metabolic sustanance for the long haul ) but, lets say you have a lambic that you want to bottle at 1.008 because it tastes "right" and you know the brett is going to bring it down more over time, maybe years..... so in theory you can still drop lets say 6 more points in the bottle.... how do you know how much sugar and Sacch yeat to add I would agree with BryanThompson with using the Ec-1118 but how much without over carbing the beer ? With all due respect to BT 4.5 volumes seems pretty high, by bjcp standards about 2.5 volumes is where most sours minus lambics should be.

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Old 10-12-2012, 03:45 PM   #18
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In a clean beer you would calculate the remaining attenuation and adjust from there but it's more tricky with a sour beer because not everything produces CO2 nor does it produce it at the same rate as sacc. If you bottle the beer at 1.008 based on flavor it's going to continue to sour and/or get more funky as the brett and bacteria are still at work in the bottle. If you like the beer where it is you will have to knock out the brett and bacteria and then add fresh priming sugar and yeast to carb the bottles. You can't have it both ways. If you want it to continue to ferment out then you might as well leave it in the fermentor and once it's dry you can bottle.

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Old 10-12-2012, 03:52 PM   #19
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I agree that 4.5 volumes is too high for the BJCP but they don"t drink my beers I enjoy very high carbonation in my lambics, it seems to make the nose much more noticeable.

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Old 10-12-2012, 04:41 PM   #20
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In a clean beer you would calculate the remaining attenuation and adjust from there but it's more tricky with a sour beer because not everything produces CO2 nor does it produce it at the same rate as sacc. If you bottle the beer at 1.008 based on flavor it's going to continue to sour and/or get more funky as the brett and bacteria are still at work in the bottle. If you like the beer where it is you will have to knock out the brett and bacteria and then add fresh priming sugar and yeast to carb the bottles. You can't have it both ways. If you want it to continue to ferment out then you might as well leave it in the fermentor and once it's dry you can bottle.
That's kinda what I figured the answer would be. To knock the Brett and bacteria out how would you do this ? Pasteurization, campden and sorbate? And how would you in theory pasteurize while still in the fermenter before bottling ?
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