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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Lambic & Wild Brewing > Question on souring?
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:32 AM   #11
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I still have a bunch to plan for this beer. I don't have a kegging system yet and I can't get jolly pumpkin here in texas. I got some petrus oud bruin and some of their pale. I do want a true sour and looking for a quick sour. What is dreg? I'm not up to par with the beer lingo yet.

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Old 02-03-2012, 05:02 AM   #12
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If you're looking to do a quick sour, you could do a Berliner Weisse that's sour-worted (or sour-mashed, your pick). My BW took 10 days from Mash to Glass, I do keg though, so that helped speed up carbonation. I can share the details if you want.

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Old 02-03-2012, 06:04 AM   #13
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Sure I would like to take a look what you did. I'm not saying it has to be that fast. I don't mind waiting a month or two. I'm just looking for an easier and quicker way to make a sour so I know how this bacteria works and functions. Before dedicating a carboy which I have to get for a year

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Old 02-03-2012, 06:09 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DisturbdChemist View Post
Do you know how I can keep that warm? Maybe a crockpot or on the stove at the lowerest setting, or on the stop in pot of warm water? I want to get this right and not mess up a good batch of beer
Dregs are just the stuff at the bottom of the bottle. It's where all the yeast and bacteria settle, just like when the yeast settles in your homebrew.

Depending on how much you want to sour and how sour you want it will affect what technique you take. Living in Texas, you probably do not have a furnace -- and even if you did, it's not running in these temperatures. I typically do sour mashes in a half gallon glass growler with foil over the top. I mash and sparge enough of the grain bill for 1/2 gallon from the boil volume. I bring it to a quick boil to sanitize, then cool to 120F. I fill the growler up to a couple inches from the top and toss in some grain. Then depending on how sour I want the beer I will let it sour ferment for a certain number of days. I can tell when the bacterial fermentation gets going because I'll get a thick brown krausen. It smells like rotting creamed corn. Do not be alarmed. The smell might might carry past boil into the fermenter but I assure you by the time fermentation is done it is cleanly lactic.

To keep it warm I fill the sink with hot water and put the growler in it. I drop a thermometer in the sink and periodically pull some of the water and bring it to a boil in the microwave. Then I add back. It's an imperfect system but I can keep it in the 85-120F range for most of the day (you may want to think about doing this over the weekend) and get it really hot when I go to bed so it won't cool off too much. Once the krausen gets going you shouldn't have a problem with anything getting in there and making a mess of your sour mash. That's why I say the first few days are most important, just like with yeast fermentations.

If you are just going for some tartness, go 1-3 days from when the krausen appears then add it to the beginning of the boil to reach full boil volume. If you want serious sourness, boil the rest of your beer (you may want to divide out the hops for the sour portion to make sure your bitterness is appropriate), pitch your yeast in the clean portion and after a week, do your sour mash and let it go 3-5 days from krausen (if the krausen drops you need to stop the sour mash) then boil it, cool it and pitch with your clean portion.

As you can probably tell, it's an imperfect process. It might be easier to just add lactic acid at bottling.

This technique will give you a berliner weisse kind of sourness. It won't give you the complex sourness or complex flavors you get in lambic, etc. because you don't have brett and you don't have those long fermentation processes developing complex flavors. It will still make great, refreshing beer.
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrooze
If you're looking to do a quick sour, you could do a Berliner Weisse that's sour-worted (or sour-mashed, your pick). My BW took 10 days from Mash to Glass, I do keg though, so that helped speed up carbonation. I can share the details if you want.
I'm very interested in the details
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:31 PM   #16
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In the next couple months I will be doing a "quick" sour saison and a fairly quick witbier.

I'm just undecided on how I want to go about doing the saison. I have found that even when using bacteria and brett in a beer mashed for fermentability you get sourness, and it's "quick". I did one with a East Coast Yeast culture called Bug County. I brewed it up in the beginning of November and it's cold conditioning right now. Last I checked it was at 1.004. So with that said you could brew up a saison recipe and pitch the Wyeast Rosalare blend. It should take around 4 months. Something I wonder about is the ability of 3711 to ferment in acidic worts. Since 3711 is voracious as a fermenter you could possibly add the mixed culture and when it's sour to your liking 3711 could possibly ferment it out rest of the way. I'm intrigued by this concept actually. The other option I have for a quick sour beer is to use 10-15% acidulated malt. Each 1% of acidulated malt should approximately drop pH .1. So if I had a beer finish fermenting at 4.5-4.8 the acidulated malt would bring it down into the 3 range of pH. This again is something I wonder about with 3711s ability.

The way I'm going to do the witbier is a more traditional way of brewing witbier. I will do a somewhat dextrinous mash and only hop half to 2/3 of the wort. The rest will be boiled separately and will receive a lactic acid culture for at least 3-4 days before adding the yeast. Then they will be blended for bottling. That should be no more than a few weeks.

I guess the most important question that I have for you is this. What style of sour beer are you looking to make? That depends on the technique you use for cheating to make it quick.

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Old 02-03-2012, 02:13 PM   #17
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Maybe a pale ale. I'm thinking of modifying edworts haus pale ale to be soured. If you have to cold condition the saison I'm unable because I don't have a chest freezer but looking for one and about to build a temperature control to it.

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Old 02-03-2012, 02:59 PM   #18
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You don't have to cold condition the saison. I'm just doing it to get it to clear up.

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Old 02-03-2012, 03:23 PM   #19
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In my mine i thought it was a lager. I havent done a saison yet i had a sour saison last weekend and it was great. I can find some recipes and see what i need. What i like to do is separate about a gallon of wort when i brew and add the uncrushed malt. Does it have to be uncrush? What if i take the wort out before the boil will it still have the lactic bacteria in it? Will a gal of sour mash will produce a good in you face sour taste but not too over powering?

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Old 02-03-2012, 03:33 PM   #20
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Wild / sour beers are by definition a little unpredictable. If you just want a beer with a lactic acidity and tang, I'd recommend buying a bottle of food grade lactic acid. Lactobaccillus generally doesn't produce much acid unless it's held at very warm temperatures (I've had good results at 90-98F).

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