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Old 08-12-2013, 10:18 PM   #1
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Default Posca (Sour Wine) Experiment

I have been trying to think of unique things to do and was thinking about making a sour wine. Well, it ends up that there is a term for it based in Roman times, Posca. I was wondering if any of you have ever given this a try.

I am thinking of throwing Wyeast's Roeselare blend in as the yeast of the wine instead of the packet that comes with whichever wine kit that I end up buying. I will most likely throw a wood dowel into the carboy to get a bit of that flavor as well.

However, I am undecided what style of wine I will want to use in this experiment. The ones I am kicking around are Riesling, Merlot, Pinot Noir, and Pinot Blanc.

I am anticipating that I will have to feed this experiment with yeast nutrient as I go. I don't know if I should add any of the normal packets that will come with the wine kit or not. I don't know if they will hinder the sour notes or help the experimental wine to become more palatable.

Should I acquire a small barrel to bulk age this after I let it go for a year or do you think I should bottle age it?

Any ideas or words of caution before I get this experiment underway?

I know coriander was typically used as the spice, so I might have to come up with a good spice blend for this as well.

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Old 08-12-2013, 10:26 PM   #2
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One problem I see with using Roselare blend is that beer yeast can't ferment the long chain sugars in grape mustt, which will probably mean little primary fermentation or at least a very underattenuated one.

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Old 08-12-2013, 10:35 PM   #3
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Huh?

I always thought that grape must and most fruit must contain an extremely high proportion of fructose and sucrose sugars, especially compared to wort. How would a beer yeast not.be able to ferment especially a mixed blend like roselare. Its not the ideal fermentor but it'd work.

Go read up about a guy named Paul Thackery. I think thats the name. He does wines aunatural as wa done in Roman Times.

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Old 08-12-2013, 10:39 PM   #4
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Well, the main objective of using that blend would be the balance of the pedio, lacto, and brett. Do you think the brett would be able to take over enough to ferment this down sufficiently? Otherwise I could throw in the yeast provided as well as the Roeselare blend. It would be hard to reproduce the results, but would at least be an interesting experiment who should give me enough bottles to not care whether or not I can replicate it exactly.

If I do throw in the provided yeast, I will keep to their schedule of additions as specified on the packaging just to be sure I don't get too many off flavors.

Do you think that would be a safer bet to get a good result?

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Old 08-12-2013, 10:43 PM   #5
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A quick google search revealed who Sean Thackrey is. I will read up on him and his techniques before I proceed. I may even try to see if I can procure any of his wine to see whether or not this is something that I would find desirable to pursue.

Thanks! This should be an interesting investigation.

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Old 08-13-2013, 01:14 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokinghole View Post
Huh?

I always thought that grape must and most fruit must contain an extremely high proportion of fructose and sucrose sugars, especially compared to wort. How would a beer yeast not.be able to ferment especially a mixed blend like roselare. Its not the ideal fermentor but it'd work.

Go read up about a guy named Paul Thackery. I think thats the name. He does wines aunatural as wa done in Roman Times.
Whoops, major brain fart, wine yeast can't ferment the long chain sugars in wort, not the other way around. Ignore me and carry on.
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:03 AM   #7
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Thanks to both of you, again. I feel more sane doing this, and since I am in an apartment I think I will go with that blend instead of doing the awesome things that Mr Thackrey is doing. I will most likely keep the fermentation at the low end of the spectrum at the beginning so that I don't get as many esters from the sacc yeast. This should at least make it less likely that I create clashing flavors.

Should I go with a red or a white wine kit?

I feel like a white wine would show the sour characters less due its natural sourness, yet the flavors might seem more natural for that very same reason. Though, if Roeselare has Brett L, the cherry flavors would more compliment a red wine. Any thoughts or should I try one then try the other when the first one is completes? (White then red would make the most sense to me for reuse of the yeast cake).

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Old 08-13-2013, 02:42 AM   #8
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Are red wines high enough in anthocyanins to cause bitterness issues?
More info.

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Old 08-13-2013, 01:24 PM   #9
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One thing I'd watch out for is if the wine yeast that comes with the kit is a competitive/killer strain. The brett and LAB will be fine but it'll take out the sacch. Another would be the pH of the wine. If you're already down around 3.2, the LAB may not produce additional acidity, nor would you want them to. Finally, since the must is comprised entirely of simple sugars, the primary fermentation will take it to dryness. The brett will do its thing regardless, but again, not much for the LAB to work with. All this actually brings up one more point. Suppose you select a higher pH must and crash out the sacch before dryness. The LAB will be in a more favorable environment but are likely to go acetic as a byproduct of malolactic "fermentation."

This is actually a really cool experiment, I hope you go through with it and report back. Just some things to consider. I'll have to read up on the traditional method before I write it off. Until then I'll probably only take it so far as blending wine with sour beer or a brett secondary in a small portion of a batch.

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Old 08-13-2013, 01:36 PM   #10
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Ah, looks like it's been we'll documented that Posca is vinegary, so nothing new there. Carry on...

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