Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway - Enter Now!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Lambic & Wild Brewing > Newbie to sour beers need some help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-17-2011, 12:46 AM   #1
jtejedor
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 651
Liked 10 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default Newbie to sour beers need some help

Hello all I am trying to embark on a new adventure in sour brewing. I have had a roselare pack and old ale pack sitting in my fridge for a while but was scared of infecting my equipment and also did not know if I really even liked sour beer. Hate to admit to date I have only tried Oro de calabasa and Orval (if that counts) but I did love the jolly pumpkin beer am going to make a point to try more. Sorry to ramble anyway I was wondering those of you that pitch bottle dregs say from jolly pumpkin, do you only need to pitch one bottle worth of dregs or several? And does jolly pumpkin ferment most of the beer with regular yeast then use the bugs to finish out? I saw Jamil's flanders red and that was the method he outlined is this the best way to do it or is it better to ferment completely with the bugs? Also say I keep trying my beer and am happy with the sourness of it how do I stop it from souring any further? Thanks for any help I plan to get one of these sour beers started soon as they seem to take a really long time.

__________________
jtejedor is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-17-2011, 12:04 PM   #2
cactusgarrett
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 984
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

For one, Jamil doesn't claim his method is "the best," he just mentions that he doesn't like his sours as sour as some of us. In order to dial back the sourness, he ferments with WY1056 initially, then has the bugs sour it up - instead of having the bug sour from the onset.

__________________

~~ Malted barley wants to become beer. ~~

cactusgarrett is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-17-2011, 12:49 PM   #3
Oldsock
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Oldsock's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: DC, Washington DC
Posts: 3,058
Liked 147 Times on 102 Posts
Likes Given: 76

Default

I've had much better luck pitching dregs/bugs in primary along with the primary yeast. I made Jamil's Flanders Red and was really disappointed by the slight tartness.

Jolly Pumpkin dregs are great, they bottle their beer pretty young so the microbes are healthier than those in many other sours. A couple bottles worth is good insurance, but you could get away with one especially if you are pitching the Roeselare. I would also pitch some ale yeast just to make sure you have a healthy primary fermentaiton (I've had bad luck just using blends for primary since they don't have as much brewers yeast as a regular pack).

I believe JP pitches their primary strain and then do something like run their ventilation system in reverse to run outside air over the wort, then the beers go into barrels that previously held beer to get more microbes (Jamil did a couple great interviews with the brewer for Can You Brew It).

__________________

Check out The Mad Fermentationist for my adventures in fermentation and my book: American Sour Beers!

Oldsock is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-17-2011, 01:12 PM   #4
cactusgarrett
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 984
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtejedor View Post
Also say I keep trying my beer and am happy with the sourness of it how do I stop it from souring any further?
I think i read around here that once you refrig the beer, it puts the bugs to sleep, thus curtailing further souring. Can anyone comment on that - i could be way off?
__________________

~~ Malted barley wants to become beer. ~~

cactusgarrett is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-17-2011, 01:57 PM   #5
Oldsock
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Oldsock's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: DC, Washington DC
Posts: 3,058
Liked 147 Times on 102 Posts
Likes Given: 76

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cactusgarrett View Post
I think i read around here that once you refrig the beer, it puts the bugs to sleep, thus curtailing further souring. Can anyone comment on that - i could be way off?
Slows them down, doesn't stop them. The only way to kill them are heat, chemicals, or filtration. The easiest way to adjust the acidity is to do some blending at serving time.
__________________

Check out The Mad Fermentationist for my adventures in fermentation and my book: American Sour Beers!

Oldsock is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-17-2011, 02:52 PM   #6
Almighty
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 418
Liked 22 Times on 15 Posts

Default

Along your lines of using bottle dregs. I have had some good success and especially with Jolly Pumpkin dregs.
I pitched one bottle into one gal of medium gravity wort. It was fermeting quickly with their sacc strain they use (WLP530) and had a nice pellicle after a couple months. I recently tasted this batch and it was over the top sour. Which I am a fan of but will probably blend to make it a more drinkable beer.
More info with pictures here:
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2010/08/dreg-series-black-jolly-sour.html

So I don't really know how many bottles you need for 5 gallons but Old Sock's advice is good that you would be safe with a couple. Especially if you are planning to pitch the Roeselare pack.

I also suggest pitching more sacc yeast than is in the Roeselare blend because my Oud Bruin took way too long to show activity with only the Roeselare. And a beer that is goign to age this long is not worth risking the chance that other worse tasting bugs take over.

For stopping the bugs here is a good threaad. Actually Old Sock (Mike T) comments about his results.
http://www.babblebelt.com/newboard/thread.html?tid=1108752780&th=1223631341&pg=15&tpg =1&add=1

__________________
Almighty is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-17-2011, 03:01 PM   #7
Oldsock
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Oldsock's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: DC, Washington DC
Posts: 3,058
Liked 147 Times on 102 Posts
Likes Given: 76

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almighty View Post
For stopping the bugs here is a good threaad. Actually Old Sock (Mike T) comments about his results.
http://www.babblebelt.com/newboard/thread.html?tid=1108752780&th=1223631341&pg=15&tpg =1&add=1
That beer is still stable, so no issues with long term storage.
__________________

Check out The Mad Fermentationist for my adventures in fermentation and my book: American Sour Beers!

Oldsock is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Easy Way to Make Sour Beers (1 gal wort + dregs) Almighty Lambic & Wild Brewing 235 06-18-2014 05:57 AM
Wanted: Sour beer lovers to taste a sour mash beer OldRalHoleBrewing Lambic & Wild Brewing 12 09-03-2012 04:16 AM
Age Sour Beers in Sealed Plastic Buckets Almighty Lambic & Wild Brewing 15 11-08-2011 02:51 AM
Question about secondary for sour beers RJSkypala Lambic & Wild Brewing 3 01-24-2011 07:27 PM
Always sour mash for sour brews? jvlpdillon Lambic & Wild Brewing 4 04-27-2010 10:21 PM