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-   -   Making it taste Lambic without being wild (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/making-taste-lambic-without-being-wild-185534/)

Babylon 07-08-2010 12:28 AM

Making it taste Lambic without being wild
 
So Lindemans Peche is one of my favorite beers. I want to try to make something with similar characteristics but I don't want to do a wild fermentation. I'd also rather not take forever to brew it. I figure using fairly light malts, old hops, and doing a secondary fermentation on the peaches is part of it, but how do I get a sour taste? It looks like that comes from the lactobacillus? Any particular strains of domestic yeast that will give similar characteristics to a lindemans lambic? Also should it be fermented warmer or colder?

ChshreCat 07-08-2010 12:37 AM

You could do a sour mash. Mash a bit of 2-row. Drain off the wort and throw in a handful of raw grain. Let that sit in a warm place overnight and let the lacto do it's thing. Then brew your beer and add that sour wort to your new wort. The boil will kill the lacto, but leave the sour behind. Same flavor without worrying about having lacto in your fermenter and siphon and whatnot.

Babylon 07-08-2010 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChshreCat (Post 2148956)
You could do a sour mash. Mash a bit of 2-row. Drain off the wort and throw in a handful of raw grain. Let that sit in a warm place overnight and let the lacto do it's thing. Then brew your beer and add that sour wort to your new wort. The boil will kill the lacto, but leave the sour behind. Same flavor without worrying about having lacto in your fermenter and siphon and whatnot.

This looks good. Is raw grain something I'm going to be able to get from non bulk brewing suppliers?

ChshreCat 07-08-2010 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon (Post 2148967)
This looks good. Is raw grain something I'm going to be able to get from non bulk brewing suppliers?

by "raw grain" I just meant unmashed. Just save off some of the 2-row you get for the sour mash. The grain has lacto all over it.

Babylon 07-08-2010 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChshreCat (Post 2148970)
by "raw grain" I just meant unmashed. Just save off some of the 2-row you get for the sour mash. The grain has lacto all over it.



ok great. I thought you meant as in unmalted and unroasted.

ryane 07-08-2010 01:49 AM

brew up a sweetish wheat beer, use fruit or extract to get the flavor, and peaches by the way do not hold up to fermentation so youll either have to add extract or use apricots for the flavor, you can then add lactic acid to taste in the bottling bucket/keg for the sourness

Oldsock 07-08-2010 02:08 PM

I’ve been wanting to do a quick soured beer for awhile, but I wanted to avoid the problems/inconsistencies I've heard/read about sour mashes. Luckily someone forwarded me the method used by one of the larger sour beer brewers in America to do their "spontaneous" sour fruit beers.

I soured half the wort pre-boil using a starter built up from 1/2 cup of pale malt. To make the starter I combined the crushed malt with 1 pint of ~1.033 DME wort and held it at 120 (using a heating pad) for 3 days to encourage the lacto to grow. I then pitched the liquid from the starter into half the batch, flushed with CO2 (oxygen will encourage microbes you don't want), and left it at warm room temp for 3 days to sour. The other half was boiled with all the hops and pitched with ale yeast. Last night I boiled/chilled the sour half (nice tart lactic acid, no weird off-flavors) and racked it onto the clean half.

If you want something with more sourness you could sour the whole thing, boil it with a small amount of hops, and pitch a clean ale yeast in. Then just age on the fresh/ripe fruit of your choice.

Bobby_M 07-08-2010 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChshreCat (Post 2148970)
by "raw grain" I just meant unmashed. Just save off some of the 2-row you get for the sour mash. The grain has lacto all over it.

The only issue I keep hearing about is lacto isn't the only thing all over it. I guess one way around it is to get a pure lacto culture from white labs. Oldsock's method of souring half (or some portion) of the beer makes a lot of sense. I think letting the whole batch sour, in addition to the bitterness you'll get out of the peaches, might be over the top without back sweetening.

Making your own lactic acid with lacto cultures is more purist but just adding food grade lactic acid results in the same thing or at least in theory.

Speaking of purists, just be careful to not use the word Lambic when you later describe this beer ;-)

ReverseApacheMaster 07-08-2010 07:41 PM

Somebody around these parts did the partial sour mash thing with cherries. Search for "sour mash crick" and you'll find it. Apparently it turned out very well.

Without the secondary brett fermentation and the residual taste of oak I don't think it will taste "lambic" as much as it will like a sour mash beer, e.g. a berliner weisse. The feller that did the sour mash with cherries had that impression.

Also, as ryane points out, peaches don't hold up well. I've fermented with peaches in the secondary. It's not bad, but you don't get a lot of peach flavor. It mostly just adds a fruity mellowness.

Oldsock 07-08-2010 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReverseApacheMaster (Post 2150453)
Also, as ryane points out, peaches don't hold up well. I've fermented with peaches in the secondary. It's not bad, but you don't get a lot of peach flavor. It mostly just adds a fruity mellowness.

I've had good luck with peaches, the key seems to be using fresh/ripe peaches and a long exposure. I did ~2 lbs/gallon of pitted, skin-on, white peaches from a local farmers market. I let the beer sit on them for close to 6 months until they turned to goo, then I racked the beer off them for a couple months for the rest of the goo to settle out before bottling.

You could add some oak to a sour mashed beer (I'm planning on adding some cubes when I rack mine to secondary), but to be honestly I don't taste much oak in the sweet fruit lambics (lambics traditionally use well used wooden casks for aging their beer). You are spot on for the Brett, although again those sweet fruit ones have much less funk character and dryness than the more traditional fruit lambics from Cantillon, Drie Fonteinen etc...


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