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Old 03-28-2013, 10:36 PM   #1
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Default Lactobacillus plantarum

Okay anyone planning on brewing a sour soon? If I were I'd jump on this real fast just to test out. Hell if I can find this stuff in a store I will give it a shot in a small starter to see if I can get it to sour rather quickly.

When looking at one of my brewing microbiology reference books I remembered a table of lactic acid bacteria. On the list it would specify what sugars it would ferment based on the types of sugars they used for species differentiation. At the end of the list was this species in the title. It ferments most all the sugars used for differentiation vs. L. brevis which ferments like 3 of them. So it made me do some research. Apparently this species may have hop resistance just like some specific strains of L. brevis. The hop resistance is greatly attributed to the horA gene which basically gives them a stronger cell wall to withstand the hop acids (paraphrasing).

Anyhow I found a cheap source of the culture potentially, well cheap compared to a culture company. The strain is specifically linked to digestive therapeutics. I, unfortunately, cannot find any research linking this specific strain (Lactobacillus plantarum 299v) to a horA gene in two quick searches today. Anyhow with that said a small 80mL bottle has quite a bit of bacteria and it may provide quite the culture to start a sour beer. Most of the shots are flavored but it also comes in a small plain variety which may be just fine for direct pitches.

http://www.goodbelly.com/?loc=home

For the lazy ones not willing to look through the site. Only objectionable thing in there is a tiny bit of stevia it seems. However at 80mL to even a 5gal batch it's only 0.4% of the volume. So I think the 20bil cfus in the bottle would be worth the little bit of stevia.
http://www.goodbelly.com/probiotic-drink/goodbelly-straightshot/



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Old 03-30-2013, 06:27 PM   #2
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I cannot find this stuff at any of the stores that are supposedly a vendor of these products. I will keep looking though. I checked at three stores so far. The two that were local came up with nothing and one near a friends house in Annapolis turned up no product. I did however find a bottle of probiotic that sounds like a listing of microorganisms from a lambic culture the bottle was like $40 though. It had like 20 kinds of lactic acid bacteria and various yeasts including brett and Kluyveromyces.



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Old 04-02-2013, 10:55 PM   #3
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I saw some of this at the store yesterday. If my current BW goes well, I will plan on rebrewing it. Ill make a starter with some of this stuff and see if the starter develops well and possibly do a split 10g batch.

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Old 04-03-2013, 03:49 AM   #4
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Could you use the pill form from the drug store?

Maybe crush it up & make a small starter?

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Old 04-03-2013, 08:12 AM   #5
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I haven't found a pill where I know exactly what it contains. I am just looking to get a lactobacillus strain and have found many different probiotics just not the one I'm looking for. I struck out at another store yesterday but they do sell spelt for half what the other store I used to buy it from. So it wasn't a waste of a trip.

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Old 04-09-2013, 09:21 PM   #6
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Well I finally got some of this stuff. I had to go to a Whole Foods to get it. I couldn't get the straight shot flavorless version so I opted for mango and a coconut water version. I haven't tried any yet, but if I can find my malt extract I'll make up a small amount and put some in there to see what happens. I just wish I had a bunch of sterile tubes that I could just decant some off the quart carton into little single serve vials.

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Old 04-20-2013, 01:18 PM   #7
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Little update. I made up a 1.040 malt extract wort and added some of a 80ml serving to the pint of wort. The pH was like 5.5 at the start and fermented down to 2.98 pH in a weeks time. It has a nice clean lactic acid flavor and is pretty sour. I did not bother checking gravity at this point, I was more interested in the pH drop. There were no visible signs of fermentation other than a microbial haze in the jar. I kept it at room temp too rather than 90f. I cant wait to use this on a beer. I will be doing a test on it with hopped wort this week to see if its hop tolerant.

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Old 04-20-2013, 02:56 PM   #8
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I've got a whole foods on my way home from work, maybe i'll get some and see if i can try it out. I'm gonna brew a BW next weekend most likely, so maybe i'll pitch this along with my lacto d. strain i had been planning on using.

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Old 04-21-2013, 11:14 PM   #9
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Does this strain produce alcohol? It seems as if there is conflicting info out there on what strains produce alcohol. I've read that the whit labs strain does and then in another spot that it does not. As well as reading the same thing about the wyeast strain.

I'm torn over how to go about this because if its not producing alcohol and just eating the sugars then pitching it before the yeast it's gonna eat through most of the sugars as I'm trying to get the beer sour enough. So do I bump up the gravity so? Seems like a pretty darn tough beer to get right.

I also wonder if different strains/species have different flavors like the various Brett species. Would a multi species lacto Berliner be more complex than a single strain?

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Old 04-21-2013, 11:27 PM   #10
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It can produce alcohol and lactic acid. What causes on or the other I don't really know. I would guess that flavor difference between strains would depend on other organic compounds produced by the bacterium. I have found a source saying this species can produce exopolysaccharide complex (ropiness) but I don't know if that's true for this specific strain.

So for a berliner it might be a good way to have a controlled sour mash but possibly not the primary fermentation depending on the rope development. If you developed rope in the fermentor you'd probably have to add brett. Then again this bacterium might break down its own exopolysaccharide over time. Too many questions with not enough answers at the moment.



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