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01-26-2012, 06:18 AM
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#21
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tokyo, 世田谷区
Posts: 63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreas23
No, the main species in sauerkraut is Leuconostoc mesenteroides, not L. brevis. And using that to ferment beer produces awful results - I have tried.
Another possible source of L. brevis is sourdough, though.
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Yeah, there appears to be some controversy. The reference I gave (and a few other secondary references) says it's one of the dominant species, but this more recent and probably more technically proficient study (also see here), claims L. mesenteroides is initially the dominant species with a change over to L. plantarum as fermentation proceeds. I've used sauerkraut innoculant to sour a beer a couple of times, and I actually got a pretty clean souring. My only issue was it eventually became too sour for my taste, and I ended up using the beer for blending.
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01-26-2012, 11:59 AM
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#22
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bern, Switzerland
Posts: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnewcp
What else could I expect to find in waterkefir?
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Well, there seemed to be a lot of different strains involved like Saccharomyces, Lactobacillus, Kloeckera, Candida, Pediococcus... Go to Wikipedia. But one of them is L. brevis which is needed for the formation of the grain layers. I'll think about a strategy how to isolate the L. brevis out of the grains. |
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01-26-2012, 07:42 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerosin
I'll think about a strategy how to isolate the L. brevis out of the grains.
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Let me know what you come up with.
For now, I think I'll go with L. delbrueckii initially, followed by WLP011 and brett C after the wort drops below pH 4. If anyone finds a cheaper source for L. brevis let me know please. |
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01-28-2012, 02:23 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Posts: 1,298
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I asked Al at ECY if he had other strains of Lacto and he said no, but pointed out that Wyeast's Lacto is subsp. buchneri. Somehow I've always overlooked that fact or they didn't publicize it till recently.
I can only get White Labs at my LHBS, so I'll have to special order Wyeast 5335 to try it out. Has anyone made a Berliner and tried the Wyeast and White Labs lacto in different fermenters?
If anyone has a fresh bottle of any Cascade beer, Al said he would try to isolate a culture from it. Next time I get one I'll send some over to him, but I can only get it when I drive over to Portland
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01-30-2012, 09:14 AM
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#25
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 12
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If there's any chance of reviving lactos from a 30 year old bottle of original Berliner Weiße, I might have a donation to make. Could you put me into contact with Al?
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01-30-2012, 02:13 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Harrisburg
Posts: 2,173
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eastcoastyeast@comcast.net
There's the contact for Al Buck through East Coast Yeast.
__________________
Going through life is hard.
Going through life stupid is harder.
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01-30-2012, 04:01 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Posts: 1,298
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If anyone comes up with an interesting strain of lacto I'd love to try it.
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01-30-2012, 05:49 PM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon
I asked Al at ECY if he had other strains of Lacto and he said no, but pointed out that Wyeast's Lacto is subsp. buchneri. Somehow I've always overlooked that fact or they didn't publicize it till recently.
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I just picked up a pack of the 5335 today for use in this berliner weisse. If I remember correctly, the buchneri is heterofermentative, meaning it actually produces alcohol, unlike the delbrueckii. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon
If anyone comes up with an interesting strain of lacto I'd love to try it.
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Seconded. |
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01-30-2012, 06:23 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Posts: 1,298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnewcp
I just picked up a pack of the 5335 today for use in this berliner weisse. If I remember correctly, the buchneri is heterofermentative, meaning it actually produces alcohol, unlike the delbrueckii. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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You are correct |
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01-31-2012, 12:05 AM
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#30
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Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: bellevue, WA
Posts: 24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon
Has anyone made a Berliner and tried the Wyeast and White Labs lacto in different fermenters?
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I did this recently using White Labs lacto in 5 gals and a separate 5 gals using a wild lacto culture made from a cup of raw grain in 2 cups of 100F water for a week.
Interestingly, they both looked very different during fermentation, the wild got tart much faster. But now that they are bottled and conditioned, they taste identical...no difference at all. BTW both are very tart.
Here is a photo after 18 hours... http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/pellicle-photo-collection-174033/index31.html
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