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Old 05-03-2013, 03:24 PM   #11
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So I am trying this this weekend.

I have an old Lacto and Brett from White labs and and two WLP630 Berliner Weisses.

My plan is to split the batch in two (11 Gallons), areate one and cast One of the WLP630s in it, the other I am not going to areate and I am going to cast the a WLP630, the Brettt, and the Lacto.

When they both have stopped bubbling I will combine them and let them age until any sulfur smell has gone (I assume this should be doen before kegging)...

Then we will see...

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Old 05-08-2013, 05:56 PM   #12
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I've taken college microbiology and like to think of myself as a pretty sharp guy, but you guys are describing metabolic pathways far past my expertise. I'm interested in sours, but am a little intimidated by the depth of knowledge that seems to be required for producing quality beers. Is there an accepted path for producing good sours? In essence, from a very lowly hopped base beer, add X amount of Y on day Z style "instruction book" to produce a middle of the road sour from which to then experiment? I would be eternally grateful for a link to a website or book. . .

Thanks for sharing your expertise.

Edit: I'm on an all-grain system capable of 10 gallon batches, and am a moderately experienced brewer. I have worked to develop a solid process that is quite repeatable. Time for aging is not a factor, as I have plenty of equipment to start a sour pipeline as well as continue my non-sour beers.

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Old 05-08-2013, 06:27 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Yankeepride15 View Post
I've taken college microbiology and like to think of myself as a pretty sharp guy, but you guys are describing metabolic pathways far past my expertise. I'm interested in sours, but am a little intimidated by the depth of knowledge that seems to be required for producing quality beers. Is there an accepted path for producing good sours? In essence, from a very lowly hopped base beer, add X amount of Y on day Z style "instruction book" to produce a middle of the road sour from which to then experiment? I would be eternally grateful for a link to a website or book. . .

Thanks for sharing your expertise.

Edit: I'm on an all-grain system capable of 10 gallon batches, and am a moderately experienced brewer. I have worked to develop a solid process that is quite repeatable. Time for aging is not a factor, as I have plenty of equipment to start a sour pipeline as well as continue my non-sour beers.
The little I know I think i picked uo from reading "Brewing with Wheat" by Stan Hieronymus... I think there is a section about brewing Berliner Weisse.

That and a bit of research on the web.

The one thing I think was critical was hop amounts and that there was a limit to how much Alpha Acids (how much hops) could be in the beer and expect the Lacto to perform....
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:56 PM   #14
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Yankee,

That's what I was kind of looking for, but it doesn't seem to be out there on the interwebs. I've read people who say they pitched both the lacto and yeast together and get awesome sourness in a few weeks, others who say that they are pitching lacto early, keeping warm, then yeast and it's taking a while. I'm also reading the opposite of each of those. That's whats making me wonder if we really understand the metabolism of this beasty we call lacto.

I brewed a simple wort, only did mash hops and boiled for 15 minutes. Cooled to 110, pitched a decanted apple juice starter and wrapped up the fermenter in blankets and stuff. It was still warm to the touch 24 hours later, i pulled the blankets put it in my ferm fridge and once down to 65 pitched my yeast.

I have a feeling that there is something we can do with our method to make sure that the lacto is producing mainly lactic acid and not alcohol, but i'm not sure if it's an oxygen thing, a temp thing, or something else i've not thought of. Then the issue becomes, if it's producing lactic acid it's gonna eat sugars and we are gonna be way under on our alcohol predictions. With a beer that's only supposed to end up at 3% being off could be a big issue.

This is not an easy brew to figure out, and I hate to be outwitted by prokaryotes.

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Old 05-09-2013, 12:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeepride15 View Post
I've taken college microbiology and like to think of myself as a pretty sharp guy, but you guys are describing metabolic pathways far past my expertise. I'm interested in sours, but am a little intimidated by the depth of knowledge that seems to be required for producing quality beers. Is there an accepted path for producing good sours? In essence, from a very lowly hopped base beer, add X amount of Y on day Z style "instruction book" to produce a middle of the road sour from which to then experiment? I would be eternally grateful for a link to a website or book. . .

Thanks for sharing your expertise.

Edit: I'm on an all-grain system capable of 10 gallon batches, and am a moderately experienced brewer. I have worked to develop a solid process that is quite repeatable. Time for aging is not a factor, as I have plenty of equipment to start a sour pipeline as well as continue my non-sour beers.
Despite the nerdiness, there is no reason to be concerned. Brewing sours is actually pretty simple. I usually pitch everything together in primary, and rack when I get around to it.

Here are my general thoughts: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/11/brewing-sour-beer-at-home.html

Good luck!
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:58 AM   #16
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Thanks to all who replied, I appreciate your help. I'll be trying this sour thing soon enough.

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Old 06-03-2013, 09:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankeepride15 View Post
I've taken college microbiology and like to think of myself as a pretty sharp guy, but you guys are describing metabolic pathways far past my expertise. I'm interested in sours, but am a little intimidated by the depth of knowledge that seems to be required for producing quality beers. Is there an accepted path for producing good sours? In essence, from a very lowly hopped base beer, add X amount of Y on day Z style "instruction book" to produce a middle of the road sour from which to then experiment? I would be eternally grateful for a link to a website or book. . .

Thanks for sharing your expertise.

Edit: I'm on an all-grain system capable of 10 gallon batches, and am a moderately experienced brewer. I have worked to develop a solid process that is quite repeatable. Time for aging is not a factor, as I have plenty of equipment to start a sour pipeline as well as continue my non-sour beers.
Brewing sours, especially lacto sours, is fairly easy. Most lacto is gram-positive so just make sure you keep the IBUs under 25. I use lacto cultured from grain. As Oldsock said the WL lacto is pretty tame, have never tried wyeast though. I blend the soured portion with unsoured beer to get the right level. Wild lacto is extremely strong in my experience, which I prefer.

Brewing true sours is even easier, but you have to wait a long time.
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Old 07-23-2013, 01:54 AM   #18
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There was a pretty good article in this month's Zymurgy covering Kentucky Common using a sour mash with WL lacto and about 1/4 the target mash volume. The author used acid malt to get into the right PH range for the lacto to thrive, and recommend pitching the pure culture directly into the sour mash. Supposedly 2 days was the sweet spot for the Kentucky common, and 3-4 days was good for the Berliner Weiss.

Once you hit your target sourness they recommend bringing the sour "starter" up to 185 to kill it, then throwing it in at the end of the big mash (so as not to screw up conversion of the starches).


I plan on trying that approach in a few week to see how it goes.

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Old 10-09-2013, 02:39 PM   #19
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I brewed one in late July by pitching Wyeast lacto and keeping at 100 for 5 days and then pitching US-05 afterwards. Still basically no sourness to speak of. I talked to some local brewers who released a berliner this summer and they said they soured there's in the kettle. Normal mash, mash out, leave in the kettle for 2 days at 110 then boil and pitch yeast. I'm going to try this method next time.

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Old 10-12-2013, 02:32 AM   #20
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I brewed one in late July by pitching Wyeast lacto and keeping at 100 for 5 days and then pitching US-05 afterwards. Still basically no sourness to speak of. I talked to some local brewers who released a berliner this summer and they said they soured there's in the kettle. Normal mash, mash out, leave in the kettle for 2 days at 110 then boil and pitch yeast. I'm going to try this method next time.
How many hops did you use?
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