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Old 12-26-2013, 09:26 PM   #1
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Default L. Plantarum and L. Brevis Berliner Weisse

I have never posted before, I am hoping to get some feedback on a brew that I am planning. Looking for help on procedure not recipe:

The very loose "procedure" and thoughts are below.

mashing with one decoction of wort only (no solids);
running off into my brew kettle;
pitching a hand full of crushed grain and juice from homemade sourkraut.


The sourkraut should contain Lactobacillus Plantarum and Lactobacillus Brevis, the grain should have Lactobacillus Brevis. I want the L. Brevis as it will supposedly be more true to the style and produce a more complex beer. Using multiple source strains I am hoping to get some real character.

The hope is to let this sit in the brew kettle for about 12-24 hours then bring to a boil to sterilize at which point I would chill and add a clean fermenting yeast strain.

L. Plantarum produces Diacetyl in milk at levels that are detectable, I assume this will translate to the wort. Boiling should drive that off as well as sterilize the wort.

Is there anything that I should be watching out for or doing differently?



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Old 12-27-2013, 05:31 AM   #2
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I did a Berliner with Plantarum 299v from the good belly drinks that you can get at Kroger. It turned out fine no diacetyl at all. I pitched it at 90 and let it ride at that temp for four days. It is insanely sour. Just make sure you don't hop your wort since all these strains are extremely hop sensitive.



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Old 12-27-2013, 12:01 PM   #3
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I was planning on a small amount of hops in the mash I think less than 5 IBU. Good to hear I don't have to worry.

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Old 12-27-2013, 01:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanThompson View Post
I did a Berliner with Plantarum 299v from the good belly drinks that you can get at Kroger. It turned out fine no diacetyl at all. I pitched it at 90 and let it ride at that temp for four days. It is insanely sour. Just make sure you don't hop your wort since all these strains are extremely hop sensitive.
In my experience 299v is not hop sensitive.
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Old 12-27-2013, 06:04 PM   #5
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One thing that concerns me is the production of acetobacter in the sauerkraut might take off in your wort. I would either skip the sauerkraut addition or ensure the temp is around 110F. That should be high enough to keep the acetobacter production down or negate it.

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Old 12-28-2013, 02:35 AM   #6
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I would recommend 2-3 days souring rather than just 12-24 hours

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Old 12-28-2013, 02:05 PM   #7
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Acetobactor is an aerobic bacteria, if I blanket the kettle with CO2 then seal it I can minimize production. I am going to have a hard time maintaining temperature above 110 for 3 days is going to be nearly impossible. I can keep it close for 12.

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Old 12-28-2013, 03:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njbalazs View Post
I was planning on a small amount of hops in the mash I think less than 5 IBU. Good to hear I don't have to worry.
5 may be too many. Use zero. If you want any hops, add them when you boil it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njbalazs View Post
Acetobactor is an aerobic bacteria, if I blanket the kettle with CO2 then seal it I can minimize production. I am going to have a hard time maintaining temperature above 110 for 3 days is going to be nearly impossible. I can keep it close for 12.
It all depends on how long the lag phase is. I don't use grain, which seems to work fairly quickly from reports on here, and I am finding I need to leave it for 5 to 7 days at about 100 F.

Does diacetyl get droven off with boiling? I don't know.

Any alcohol created by the Lacto will be driven off. I don't boil mine.
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:44 PM   #9
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The lacto used does not create alcohol according to Wikipedia. L. Brevis, l. Acidophilus, L. Delbrueckii, and L. Plantarum are all homofermentive, can only produce lactic acid. (Was wondering so I did a quick search)

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Old 12-28-2013, 04:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chad_ View Post
The lacto used does not create alcohol according to Wikipedia. L. Brevis, l. Acidophilus, L. Delbrueckii, and L. Plantarum are all homofermentive, can only produce lactic acid. (Was wondering so I did a quick search)

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Not that Wikipedia is a reliable source for information, but you must have misread.

From the L. Brevis page: "L. brevis produces more organic acids, specifically acetic acid and ethanol. This means that this bacterium produces an increased acidic environment and alcohol"

L Brevis can also produce diacetyl per Wild Brews p 187.


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