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Old 03-13-2009, 10:27 PM   #91
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Interesting. Traditionally nail polisher remover is acetone. There are biosynthetic routes to form simple ketones such as acetone. I will spare you lot the stream of conciousness gibberish I started to write.
Thanks for sparing me the gibberish. My mind going to mush due to the lack of sleep. Need to corral the brain cells that are going to slaughter tonight.
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Old 03-16-2009, 05:09 AM   #92
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I haven't done any sour beer yet, but I have done sauerkraut, sour veggies, pickles, etc. using wild fermentation. And for all of these all I do is put them in brine with no heat at all and they just develop a lactic character on their own. The bugs are not necessarily "caught," as I understand it they are already there in the food.

So I was wondering about taking some organic unmalted barley, crushing it, adding some good water and letting it develop its own indigenous bugs. Just a thought.

I'm also going to try the putting the wort outside thing I've been reading about here. I was going to try boiled and unboiled and see what I get. I'll do it the same way I catch sourdough bugs. I take a canning jar and instead of using the lid I put some cheesecloth over the top and use the ring to secure it. Then I set the jars on the deck. But maybe this time I'll put the jars in the woods on the ground and maybe get "woodsier" bugs!

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Old 03-16-2009, 04:37 PM   #93
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Ok - I moved the 25ml starter to the 150ml. Upon doing so it smelled just like the slant, tart, fruity and maybe a bit sour.

I'm not seeing much of the typical yeast action. In the 150ml I have some sediment and it smells about the same.

It doesn't seem behave the same way though.

Question: Is wild yeast NOT Saccharomyces Cerevisiae? Is it usually Brett??

Scratching my head about this....

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Old 03-16-2009, 05:28 PM   #94
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Ok - I moved the 25ml starter to the 150ml. Upon doing so it smelled just like the slant, tart, fruity and maybe a bit sour.

I'm not seeing much of the typical yeast action. In the 150ml I have some sediment and it smells about the same.

It doesn't seem behave the same way though.

Question: Is wild yeast NOT Saccharomyces Cerevisiae? Is it usually Brett??

Scratching my head about this....
I think you usually get both. How much of each, depends on a variety of factors, the area, temperature, season, etc. Complex. There are also other yeasts then just the Sacch. and Bretts. as well.

I think (could be wrong) that the Sacch. produces more esters than the Bretts. So the fruity smell would seem to indicate the presence of Sacch.
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Old 03-16-2009, 06:11 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Schlenkerla View Post
Ok - I moved the 25ml starter to the 150ml. Upon doing so it smelled just like the slant, tart, fruity and maybe a bit sour.

I'm not seeing much of the typical yeast action. In the 150ml I have some sediment and it smells about the same.

It doesn't seem behave the same way though.

Question: Is wild yeast NOT Saccharomyces Cerevisiae? Is it usually Brett??

Scratching my head about this....
I had just read through something recently that said there are (or were at the time of writing) "100 genera of yeast encompassing 700 species". It also says there are 14 species of Saccharomyces

So there are tons of possibilities of what you could have. Of course that number would be limited down to species that can process maltose (and/or whatever else was in your media)
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:18 PM   #96
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I thinking that I should let this go for a bit and then step it up again. Maybe fit an airlock onto it for some time. It appears to be working though. The starters are smelling like the slant.

I was reading about lambics and was thinking this might be a long drawn out process. The slant seemed to grow fast though...

Can't tell the actvity w/o a gravity check or fitting an airlock.

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Old 03-16-2009, 07:30 PM   #97
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I thinking that I should let this go for a bit and then step it up again. Maybe fit an airlock onto it for some time. It appears to be working though. The starters are smelling like the slant.

I was reading about lambics and was thinking this might be a long drawn out process. The slant seemed to grow fast though...

Can't tell the actvity w/o a gravity check or fitting an airlock.
This is all pretty knew to me, but I'm enjoying reading/learning about all of this. I'll probably try to do something like this sometime soon.

If you isolate a single colony you could make some small vials of wort of differing gravity to see at what point the strain dies off. Maybe in steps of 20 points. 1.020, 1.040, 1.060, 1.080, 1.100, 1.120. With small sizes it should be cheap enough to make with DME
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Old 03-17-2009, 03:19 PM   #98
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The literature I've read (I can't site an exact source right now) has said that there is a lot of bacteria that won't grow in the presence of alpha acids. So on a plate/slant that is being used to culture wild stuff it would help to only collect/grow things that will grow well in wort.

I've made slants/plates with and without hops and I've never noticed a difference in normal yeast culturing. Though when I've used hopped wort it was always leftover from a batch, so I'll continue to do so when I have leftover wort after a brewday

Just an FYI....

I did do some research on this. Adding hop extract would be better than hop pellets. Mainly because of the homogeneous appearance of the slant. You need to be able to visually single out the bugs or mold on a slant. Not mistake bugs for hop particles or vice-versa.

I believe you would be correct in the benefit of adding AA's as would adding some yeast nutrients. I usually add the latter to my media.

I will keep your idea in mind with using leftover wort. I usually make media up from extra-light DME.
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:23 PM   #99
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Default Starter Update...

Starter Update...

This is stepped up twice close to about a liter. Should be good for my 3 gal batch.

The smell & appearance between steps are the same and it appears to clear well.

So Far, So Good.

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Old 03-19-2009, 02:18 PM   #100
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This is really cool Schlenkerla!

Thanks for taking the pics and logging your progress.

I assume you are brewing this weekend?

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