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-   -   Help with second sour - procedure? (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/help-second-sour-procedure-381714/)

Braufessor 01-15-2013 05:49 PM

Help with second sour - procedure?
 
OK - I am still pretty new to doing sours. I have done some reading, but have a ways to go. I am planning on a "sour cherry stout" this weekend and would like advice on the best way to proceed. Basically, my question centers around adding cherry and how best to ferment.

Goal - a tart, cherry stout. Not shooting for any super funky flavors.

Will be brewing a basic stout.
Will be adding pure cherry concentrate (door county tart cherries) about 24 ounces

I have Roeselare blend and I also have WLP001.

Not sure what is the best plan of attack.

Should I brew the stout, and ferment with 001, then add cherry conc. and roeselare in secondary?

Should I add the cherry conc. right away and after primary with 001 add Roeselare to secondary?

Should I use the 001 at all? Should I just go with Roeselare straight into primary? Add cherry conc. at primary or in secondary later on? How much later.

Basically looking for advice on when to add cherry, should I use 001 and Roeselare . . . .or just Roeselare? Primary/secondary time frame? I know it will take a year+ for this beer, but would really appreciate some advice from those of you with experience.

That is the toughest thing with these beers . . . . time. I don't mind being patient. But, I really don't want to find out 18 months from now that I should have used a different method:)

Thanks!

Bensiff 01-15-2013 06:49 PM

I can only give you my thoughts and not actual answers as I have not made a funky beer with your parameters...so take it for what it is, I would do one of two things.

A:
With the goal of tart and limited funk I would run a cereal mash or add malto dextrin and keep the percentage down to 10-15%, add the cherry extract at the end of the the boil, and then primary with the 001 to get most of the sugars, rack to secondary and add the Roeselare and let sit for 8-12 months.

B:
Not having used fruit extract before and knowing that when I do a fruited funk beer I add that fruit after fermentation I would consider doing the same as A but only add the Roeselare and then after primary rack to a secondary with the fruit concentrate already in it hoping this better preserves the fruit's characteristics.

TNGabe 01-15-2013 08:22 PM

I'd pitch both and then rack onto cherries when you like. I'm not a very experienced sour fruit beer brewer, but I've got a few going.

My one suggestion is to think about the amount of roast barley or black malt you're using and consider subbing some for something like dehusked carafa or debittered black. Too much roast doesn't do we'll with sour and/or funky IMO.

Braufessor 01-15-2013 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNGabe (Post 4788695)

My one suggestion is to think about the amount of roast barley or black malt you're using and consider subbing some for something like dehusked carafa or debittered black. Too much roast doesn't do we'll with sour and/or funky IMO.

That is something I was planning on - using primarily carafa, as opposed to the roast barley. I was thinking the same thing.

TNGabe 01-15-2013 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braufessor

That is something I was planning on - using primarily carafa, as opposed to the roast barley. I was thinking the same thing.

Cool. Sorry to tell you something you already know. I spend lots of time thinking about these things and thought I'd throw it out there.

Braufessor 01-15-2013 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNGabe (Post 4788840)
Cool. Sorry to tell you something you already know. I spend lots of time thinking about these things and thought I'd throw it out there.

Definitely don't apologize . . . I am a total noob at sours (just got turned on to them in the last 5 months or so), so hearing something that you are doing is recommended, is just as valuable as getting answers to other questions. Glad you mentioned it to confirm what I was thinking of doing.

Illuveatar 01-18-2013 02:35 AM

Are you planning on using any adjuncts such as unmalted wheat ? Have you considered doing a turbid mash to add unfermentables to the wort for the bugs to munch on ? also, I looked up Roeselare and it seems like it would add more of a farmhouse funk flavor than if you were to just pitch something like Lactobacillus delbrueckii.

Calder 01-20-2013 01:52 AM

You are after a 'Tart' stout. To me that means you want to get some sourness.

A problem you will have with using Roeselare blend is that the souring bugs may not do anything in the presence of any significant IBUs. I'm assuming you are probably going to hop to around 40 IBUs. I suspect both the Lacto and Pedio will not be active in that environment. Most sours are brewed with less than 10 IBUs for that very reason.

If you use Roeselare, I suspect all you will really get is the Brett that will give you the funky or rustic flavors that you say you don't want.

How to get some tartness? You could sour the beer before boiling (simillar to a Berliner Weisse), or you could use a few lbs of acid malt in the mash.


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