Flanders Red: Your thoughts?

aryoung1980 · 01-18-2012, 09:35 PM

I am going to brew my first sour this weekend and thought I'd put the recipe and my plans out there for critiquing.

First, my plans. It will be a 5 gallon batch which will sit in primary (glass carboy) untouched for about a year. I will begin tasting it once the pellicle falls. I do not plan on racking it into a secondary fermenter. With that said I will be pitching one smack-pack of Wyeast 3763 Roeselare Blend as a 1L starter. I will also be adding the 1 oz. of oak chips to the primary fermentor from the get go. If I am able to find or make a tapered oak plug, I will use that instead of an airlock to allow some oxygen into the beer after the fementation slows.

Once my beer is good and soured I will brew up the exact same recipe using a fairly neutral ale yeast (possibly US-04 or US-05). Once that second, unsoured batch is fermented I will do some blending to reach my desired sourness level.

Here is the recipe:
6.50lbs Pale Malt (2 row) Belgian
2.50lbs Briess Vienna Malt
1.25lbs Maize, Flaked
0.50lbs Special B Malt
0.73oz US Fuggles (4.5% AA)
1 oz Oak Chips
Wyeast 3763 Roeselare Ale Blend

Medium body infusion 60 minutes at 154F

Homebrewtastic · 01-18-2012, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aryoung1980

I am going to brew my first sour this weekend and thought I'd put the recipe and my plans out there for critiquing.

First, my plans. It will be a 5 gallon batch which will sit in primary (glass carboy) untouched for about a year. I will begin tasting it once the pellicle falls. I do not plan on racking it into a secondary fermenter. With that said I will be pitching one smack-pack of Wyeast 3763 Roeselare Blend as a 1L starter. I will also be adding the 1 oz. of oak chips to the primary fermentor from the get go. If I am able to find or make a tapered oak plug, I will use that instead of an airlock to allow some oxygen into the beer after the fementation slows.

Once my beer is good and soured I will brew up the exact same recipe using a fairly neutral ale yeast (possibly US-04 or US-05). Once that second, unsoured batch is fermented I will do some blending to reach my desired sourness level.

Here is the recipe:
6.50lbs Pale Malt (2 row) Belgian
2.50lbs Briess Vienna Malt
1.25lbs Maize, Flaked
0.50lbs Special B Malt
0.73oz US Fuggles (4.5% AA)
1 oz Oak Chips
Wyeast 3763 Roeselare Ale Blend

Medium body infusion 60 minutes at 154F

This is the only time you will ever here me say this. Don't build a starter. The roeselare is a specific blend to get a certain profile. Making a starter will throw off the ratio and increase the sacc. With all of those critters in there your beer will attenuate anyways.

Homebrewtastic · 01-18-2012, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aryoung1980

I am going to brew my first sour this weekend and thought I'd put the recipe and my plans out there for critiquing.

First, my plans. It will be a 5 gallon batch which will sit in primary (glass carboy) untouched for about a year. I will begin tasting it once the pellicle falls. I do not plan on racking it into a secondary fermenter. With that said I will be pitching one smack-pack of Wyeast 3763 Roeselare Blend as a 1L starter. I will also be adding the 1 oz. of oak chips to the primary fermentor from the get go. If I am able to find or make a tapered oak plug, I will use that instead of an airlock to allow some oxygen into the beer after the fementation slows.

Once my beer is good and soured I will brew up the exact same recipe using a fairly neutral ale yeast (possibly US-04 or US-05). Once that second, unsoured batch is fermented I will do some blending to reach my desired sourness level.

Here is the recipe:
6.50lbs Pale Malt (2 row) Belgian
2.50lbs Briess Vienna Malt
1.25lbs Maize, Flaked
0.50lbs Special B Malt
0.73oz US Fuggles (4.5% AA)
1 oz Oak Chips
Wyeast 3763 Roeselare Ale Blend

Medium body infusion 60 minutes at 154F

This is the only time you will ever here me say this. Don't build a starter. The roeselare is a specific blend to get a certain profile. Making a starter will throw off the ratio and increase the sacc. With all of those critters in there your beer will attenuate anyways.

Hugh_Jass · 01-18-2012, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aryoung1980

I am going to brew my first sour this weekend and thought I'd put the recipe and my plans out there for critiquing.

First, my plans. It will be a 5 gallon batch which will sit in primary (glass carboy) untouched for about a year. I will begin tasting it once the pellicle falls. I do not plan on racking it into a secondary fermenter. With that said I will be pitching one smack-pack of Wyeast 3763 Roeselare Blend as a 1L starter. I will also be adding the 1 oz. of oak chips to the primary fermentor from the get go. If I am able to find or make a tapered oak plug, I will use that instead of an airlock to allow some oxygen into the beer after the fementation slows.

Once my beer is good and soured I will brew up the exact same recipe using a fairly neutral ale yeast (possibly US-04 or US-05). Once that second, unsoured batch is fermented I will do some blending to reach my desired sourness level.

Here is the recipe:
6.50lbs Pale Malt (2 row) Belgian
2.50lbs Briess Vienna Malt
1.25lbs Maize, Flaked
0.50lbs Special B Malt
0.73oz US Fuggles (4.5% AA)
1 oz Oak Chips
Wyeast 3763 Roeselare Ale Blend

Medium body infusion 60 minutes at 154F

In addition to what hbt said, why the flaked maize? I'd omit that and put some more medium/dark L crystal and mash a few degrees higher. The more residual sugar after primary ferment, the more sour the beer.

good luck with your project.

aryoung1980 · 01-19-2012, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homebrewtastic

This is the only time you will ever here me say this. Don't build a starter. The roeselare is a specific blend to get a certain profile. Making a starter will throw off the ratio and increase the sacc. With all of those critters in there your beer will attenuate anyways.

I wondered about this myself. I'll scratch the starter.

Calder · 01-19-2012, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aryoung1980

I am going to brew my first sour this weekend and thought I'd put the recipe and my plans out there for critiquing.

First, my plans. It will be a 5 gallon batch which will sit in primary (glass carboy) untouched for about a year. I will begin tasting it once the pellicle falls.

If I am able to find or make a tapered oak plug, I will use that instead of an airlock to allow some oxygen into the beer after the fementation slows.

Once my beer is good and soured I will brew up the exact same recipe using a fairly neutral ale yeast (possibly US-04 or US-05). Once that second, unsoured batch is fermented I will do some blending to reach my desired sourness level.

I'm no expert, but here are a few comments; take them how you want.

1) I bet you can't wait a year before tasting ....... It may be tough leaving it for 3 months. And yes; that gravity sample you take to see if the Sacc is done, is a taste!

2) I've never used a tapered plug, but wood swells when it gets wet and can crack the top of the carboy. You might try getting a quarter inch oak dowel from the hardware store (You can get them up to 4 feet long), cut to length, toast in oven, and push through the hole in a rubber bung.

3) Problem with blending is you get new residual sugars for the Brett and bugs. It is tough to know how much to blend to get the right level of priming. If you go that route, I'd ferment the second beer low, to get it as dry as possible, and use thick bottles (Champagne type).

aryoung1980 · 01-19-2012, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh_Jass

In addition to what hbt said, why the flaked maize? I'd omit that and put some more medium/dark L crystal and mash a few degrees higher. The more residual sugar after primary ferment, the more sour the beer.

good luck with your project.

This recipe is a loose adaption of one I found in BYO. According to them, "Flanders acid ale brewers toss corn grits — up to 20% — into the mash, first boiled to achieve gelatinization. For homebrewers, flaked maize is a convenient alternative. Corn contributes a smoothness to the wort plus a bit of starch for the eventual microorganisms." - Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - Beer Styles - Flanders Red Ale

I'm looking to find a starting point and adjust the grain bill over the next few batches (years).

aryoung1980 · 01-19-2012, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calder

I've never used a tapered plug, but wood swells when it gets wet and can crack the top of the carboy. You might try getting a quarter inch oak dowel from the hardware store (You can get them up to 4 feet long), cut to length, toast in oven, and push through the hole in a rubber bung.

The plug would never get wet. It will just rest loosely in the carboy opening. I read about it in Brewing Classic Styles by Jamil Zainasheff & John Palmer.

**passedpawn** · 01-19-2012, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aryoung1980

The plug would never get wet. It will just rest loosely in the carboy opening. I read about it in Brewing Classic Styles by Jamil Zainasheff & John Palmer.

I read that a bunch of times, thought about doing it, then didn't. I made my reds without that dowel trick and they came out great. I fermented in a Better Bottle. I have another one going (about 6 months now) in glass, and it's a bit less sour and I think there is less acetic acid production.

ReverseApacheMaster · 01-19-2012, 03:05 AM

I think wild brews talks about the use of corn in reds as well. I seem to recall it had to do with a taxation issue and the cheaper alternative of using cereal grains and then it stuck as a way to keep the beer a little lighter.