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-   -   First sour (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/first-sour-337923/)

WesleyS 06-26-2012 07:49 PM

First sour
I've been brewing for a little more than 6 years and have never made a sour, even though lambic and Flemish brown are some of my favorite beers. I wanted to make a sour that would be ready by this time next year. So, I wanted to get some suggestions on what to make that would fit that time frame. I've done a lot of reading on the subject but want some tips from you guys.

1. Recipe: I thought about just taking the honey and pineapple out of my American wheat recipe leaving 2 row, Munich, wheat malt, unmalted wheat and light crystal malt.
2. To be ready in a year would it be best to just use Brett instead of a lambic yeast blend? And should I ferment first with an ale strain and add Brett after fermentation is complete?
3. If I decided to add fruit after 6 months or so would it affect it being ready in a year.

Thanks in advance for any help. Also if you have a recipe and process that has worked for you and don't mind sharing I appreciate it

nberk 06-27-2012 12:53 AM

The standard response you'll get is that just adding Brett without additional bacteria will not get you "sour." The bacteria are thought to be the major contributors to the sourness. Brett provides different character depending on when and how its added. The "horse blanket" farmhouse character is more of what is often associated with the Brett. So picking your bugs depends on what you are going for. For a full on "Sour" you'll want to add a blend or a dregs from a commercial sour you enjoy.

The Jolly Pumpkin Calabaza blanca is a sour wheat beer that I enjoy. I've got a clone batch aging right now that I fermented with WLP550 and then added a starter from JP dregs. I can't really comment on how it tastes as a finished product since it's still aging, but the non-soured beer was a pleasant experience so I'm hopeful. Ron Jefferies says that in the height of the summer he only keeps this beer in the oak foudre for 2 weeks since the lactic character comes on so rapidly at that time of the year.

The other thing to keep in mind is that if you are going to use dregs then they need to be viable to work. Here's a source that lists the common sour dregs for you: http://www.themadfermentationist.com...tle-dregs.html

WesleyS 06-27-2012 01:41 AM

Thanks for the response and link. I want to venture into making beer with Brett and bugs and Brett alone. My goal for right now is to make something that will be ready for next summer whether it's a Saison with Brett, Flemish red, Berliner weisse or other. Just looking for advice from those who have experience in this.

ReverseApacheMaster 06-27-2012 03:54 AM


Originally Posted by WesleyS (Post 4204990)
Saison with Brett, Flemish red, Berliner weisse or other

Each of those have a different time frame. A berline weisse could be done in a few weeks to a few months; the saison in about six months; the flanders red in 12-18 months; lambic in 12-36 months.

WesleyS 06-27-2012 06:27 PM

Thanks for the reply. But I'm still looking for advice on this. I want a beer that will be ready to drink in 10-12 months using either Brett alone, bacteria, or Brett and bacteria. What can I brew now that would benefit from that amount of aging, and most likely not need more time than that to be ready? I like both sour and funky so I'm open to whatever you who have experience in these styles of beer suggest. I'm just trying to plan ahead for next year and I know these types of beer need longer aging than what I usually brew.

RiverRat280 06-28-2012 07:09 AM

Try a Flanders I turn mine out in about a year while a Saison with Brett is more in the 4-6 month range. Try something like jamil's Flanders first and later you can change recipes or process for your next. The roselare blend would workwell for what you want.

ReverseApacheMaster 06-28-2012 01:56 PM

Any of those could be done within 12 months (as long as you don't add a lot of starch or turbid mash the lambic) but they will benefit from continued aging.

Sebas83 06-28-2012 02:33 PM

I think a regular saison brewed out (6wks) and then put onto fruit and oak with brett/lacto/pedio is a fun move and takes about as long as you're looking for. I do suggest cold crashing the saison before adding fruit, etc so that you really allow the bugs to take over the second stage I fermentation.

And, if you really keep the O2 out, you'll have a great and balanced beer. Some saison & brett funkiness, bug sourness, all good things.

If you do a saison though, use Saison III, or a DuPont/3711 mix and get that great big saison wildness.

WesleyS 06-29-2012 10:07 AM

Thanks guys. I'll probably start a Saison that I'll secondary with fruit and Brett. I'll also start a Flanders and lambic soon.
Has anyone had good results pitching the sediment from a commercial bottle for adding Brett or bacteria?

ReverseApacheMaster 06-29-2012 02:24 PM

Lots of people do this. It will work fine. If you just want brett, Orval is an easy source of brett brux. If you want brett plus bacteria any non-pasteurized sour will be fine.

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