Kegconnection Complete Starter Kit and More Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Lambic & Wild Brewing > First flanders red...a couple questions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-29-2010, 04:30 PM   #1
BrewNinja1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Cross Plains, WI
Posts: 328
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default First flanders red...a couple questions

Just finished reading Wild Brews...it got me so stoked that I went to the store and bought about 10 different kinds of lambic, gueze, etc. My only problem with the book is it really didnt go through the process for the homebrewer (it gave hints, but no steps really).

So yesterday I started fermenting my flanders red. I will be racking it to secondary when it reaches about 1.020 then adding my roeslare blend to it. I plan on letting it age a year or two before I drink it. Here are the questions I have.

I want to add cherries at some point. When should I be adding them? Like 6 months before I bottle, or a few weeks after racking it into secondary? Can I leave them in there for a few years if I put them in up front? Or do I need to rack off of them?

What if I want to add some oak also? Same questions as the cherries.

Last question, Im assuming that after I rack from primary to secondary, then add the roeslare blend, that I just leave it there? Or do I need to rack to a tertiary to get it off the yeast?

__________________
BrewNinja1 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2010, 12:26 AM   #2
Suthrncomfrt1884
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Rockford, Illinois
Posts: 4,079
Liked 23 Times on 22 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Personally, I like to ferment my sour with a neutral yeast prior to adding any souring yeasts. I typically use s-04 to do 90% of the fermentation, then I'll add my sour strands. I add mine at different times since I use 4 different yeasts in each beer, but since you have a blend, you'll be fine adding it after primary is mostly done.

There's also no need to move the beer into a secondary. With brett beers, the brett will feed off the autolyzed yeast.

I usually add oak when I add the sour yeasts. I let it sit in the beer for the entire time I ferment. Oak tends to mellow and hit a peak at a certain point. With a few years in the fermenter, it's not going to matter.

Cherries is somewhat up to you. I add my fruits in the last 6-8 months of fermentation so they retain a little bit of their flavors. Adding them earlier will give the beer a more sour flavor. With the roeselare strain, it will add it's own cherry like flavor also.

__________________
He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven.

Another HERMS rig...
Suthrncomfrt1884 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2010, 01:36 AM   #3
BrewNinja1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Cross Plains, WI
Posts: 328
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Im fermenting with 1056 right now and will add the roeslare at 1020. Didnt realize I didnt have to move to secondary....kind of wished I would have started in my smaller carboy now! No way I can tie up a 6.5 for 2 years (I only have 2 6.5's and 2 5g).

Good to know about the oak. I guess it makes sense since its normally fermented in barrels anyways. It never even dawned on me.

Do you pitch new yeast when you add fruit? Im just wondering that lets say I add fruit after 1.5 years, will there be any yeast/bacteria left without pitching more? If I need to pitch more, what would be best to pitch...regular yeast or some more bugs?

I appreciate the help!

__________________
BrewNinja1 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2010, 03:14 AM   #4
Calder
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,412
Liked 239 Times on 214 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

I've just started a Flanders Red, from yeast cultured from one - not sure what I'm going to get, the stepped up started tasted slightly sour, so I think there is more there than just the primary yeast.

I'm not planing to add any fruit. It's just another complication, chance to ruin a good beer, and I don't think Flanders has fruit. The yeast and other bugs give off a lot of fruit flavors themselves. However, I suspect there will still be yeast/bugs alive to ferment the fruit whenever you add the fruit.

When you rack to the 5 gal, you coud stir up some of the sediment so you get some of the yeast going across while getting rid of the trub. The yeast is generally the top layer of the sediment.

I just got Wild Brews too, and I agree with you, great book, but not too much detail for the homebrewer.

__________________
Calder is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2010, 03:53 AM   #5
ReverseApacheMaster
Registered User
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Keller, Texas
Posts: 4,887
Liked 228 Times on 191 Posts

Default

It has a lot of detail, it just isn't a, "here's your recipe" book. If you read the intro he says his goal was specifically not to hand out recipes. Brew Like A Monk is written with the same objective...

BTW -- you probably don't want to step up a starter of dregs or a sour culture because the bacteria grow faster than yeast and you risk getting a beer more sour than you otherwise might like.

__________________
ReverseApacheMaster is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2010, 04:07 AM   #6
smellysell
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Helena, MT
Posts: 537
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suthrncomfrt1884 View Post
Personally, I like to ferment my sour with a neutral yeast prior to adding any souring yeasts. I typically use s-04 to do 90% of the fermentation, then I'll add my sour strands. I add mine at different times since I use 4 different yeasts in each beer, but since you have a blend, you'll be fine adding it after primary is mostly done.

There's also no need to move the beer into a secondary. With brett beers, the brett will feed off the autolyzed yeast.

I usually add oak when I add the sour yeasts. I let it sit in the beer for the entire time I ferment. Oak tends to mellow and hit a peak at a certain point. With a few years in the fermenter, it's not going to matter.

Cherries is somewhat up to you. I add my fruits in the last 6-8 months of fermentation so they retain a little bit of their flavors. Adding them earlier will give the beer a more sour flavor. With the roeselare strain, it will add it's own cherry like flavor also.
I had a thoughtful response all planned out, but I'll just give this post a +1.

No need to pitch new yeast with the fruit, the bugs and yeast hanging around will take care of it.
__________________
High Mountain Hoppers Homebrew Club

I heart sour beer
smellysell is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2010, 12:43 PM   #7
Hoosier
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Porter, Indiana
Posts: 193
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

For a lambic you don't have to rack to secondary but for a Flanders it is recommended. Having too much of the lees left behind can lend a champagne flavor that is inapropriate for a Flanders beer. Ultimately you can do what you want but if brewing to style I would rack to a secondary for this particular beer.

__________________

Proud supporter of Brett, Lacto, Pedio and all the other critters your brewing friends warn you about.
www.thebrewingnetwork.com

Hoosier is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2010, 12:45 PM   #8
cactusgarrett
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 984
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Regarding the oak, I add mine at the point of adding the bugs, too. If you're so inclined, you can fashion a dowel through a stopper to give the bugs *just* enough oxygen to sour up. Provided you're in a carboy (and not a bucket), though.

Something like this:

__________________

~~ Malted barley wants to become beer. ~~

cactusgarrett is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2010, 01:18 PM   #9
remilard
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 3,655
Liked 38 Times on 37 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calder View Post
and I don't think Flanders has fruit.
Rodenbach Alexander does.
__________________
remilard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2010, 04:19 PM   #10
BrewNinja1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Cross Plains, WI
Posts: 328
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Well I ended up at 1am this morning racking it to secondary to get it off the break and hops after trying to figure out what to do last night. Hopefully that will take care of most of the bad stuff, and just leave good stuff for the bugs to eat. It had already dropped 30 points, so I will be probably adding the bugs tonight.

I know Wild Brews wasnt written to give a recipe per say (though there are some in the back), it was just disappointing that there was no steps included on how to replicate what the original brewers did on a homebrew scale. It more was a "history" of wild brews and somewhat the science of them, not so much here is how to make such and such style. Still a good read though, and makes me want to go to Belgium to try the local versions!

The only reason Im adding cherries is because of how I was introduced into the sour beer world. My first sour beer was New Glarus Enigma. Its one of the best beers Ive ever tasted. Its aged in oak barrels with cherries. From what I can tell, its a flanders style beer, so thats what Im going with. At least when adding fruit I dont have to worry about an infection

Thanks for everyones responses! Very helpful.

__________________
BrewNinja1 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Flanders Red in only 9 weeks? Morkin Lambic & Wild Brewing 26 04-03-2012 03:14 PM
The Flanders Project 09' Reverend JC Lambic & Wild Brewing 23 11-29-2011 09:37 PM
First sours, a couple of questions SumnerH Lambic & Wild Brewing 8 07-17-2010 11:30 PM
Oak in Flanders Red Jsta Porter Lambic & Wild Brewing 5 05-15-2009 01:26 AM
Flanders red? claphamsa Lambic & Wild Brewing 20 04-01-2009 03:58 PM