Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Lambic & Wild Brewing > Extract vs. grain for lambic
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-14-2010, 06:22 PM   #1
pipapat
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: slc
Posts: 315
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default Extract vs. grain for lambic

After reading wild brews they recommend all grain with a turnbid.
After reading brewing classic styles Jamil recommends using wheat and pilsner extract for lambic for simplicity and too shorten the extra long brew day.

Looking for your opinions on what i should do for my lambic project.
I have procured a 15.5 gallon used wine barrel and bugs. I cant do a 15 gallon batch all at once so i will be spliting it in too 3, 5 gallon batches over 3 weekends, and pouring all the lambic into the barrel after 1056 has had it way with the beer.

__________________
pipapat is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-14-2010, 06:57 PM   #2
Blauvelt
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 36
Default

I read somewhere that you should sparge with extra hot water to extract tannins from the grain for Lambic style beer. I don't really know how to do that properly with extract brewing.
Maybe you could do 1 all grain batch and have the the rest extract. it would save a lot of time and you could have some authenticity.
Lambic style is 30% unmalted wheat so all grain would also have that advantage over extract.

sounds like an awesome project. I would do all grain if you are going to go through the trouble of actually barrel aging.

__________________
Blauvelt is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-14-2010, 08:38 PM   #3
ryane
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Washington
Posts: 780
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

I dont think jamil gives the best advice when it comes to sours....


Sometime back Wyeast did trials with sours made with AG and extract, during the tastings the extract batches were always picked out as inferior, I used to have a pdf of the presentation, but cant seem to find it right now, maybe someone else has it? It was from the NHC about 2-3yrs ago if I remember right

With that in mind, and the fact that you procured a 15gal barrel for making the beer in, and I would ask why you would want to cut corners? Not only would the extract batches be more $$ but may not turn out a beer as good as the AG equivalent....

Also, as far as turbid mashes go, Ive tried beers with single infusions and added maltodextrin and it worked very well, Ive done a modified boon mash schedule, and a few weird things where I included flour etc. Ive also done the turbid mash and I dont think I could tell the difference between the any of them

All you really want to do is have a very dextrinous wort when everything is said and done, you really want to feed the bugs to get it sour and funky

ryane is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-14-2010, 08:47 PM   #4
pipapat
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: slc
Posts: 315
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

how much malto would you add per 5 gallons?
I maybe going the single infusion route then based on the information and experience you have had.

Cheers

__________________
pipapat is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-14-2010, 09:56 PM   #5
ryane
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Washington
Posts: 780
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

id start at 0.5#/5gal and go from there

fermenting in barrels tends to make the beer more sour/funky than in carboys and in carboys i generally use 1#/5gal batch for a single infusion/1st pitching of lambic smack pack

ryane is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-14-2010, 10:07 PM   #6
cimirie
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 801
Liked 20 Times on 19 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I'll second ryane's statement. Lambic is a long labor of love. You're gonna be fermenting for a year or more. So that begs the question: what difference will an extra hour or two on your brewday make?

While you probably could make a halfway decent lambic with extract, "halfway decent" isn't worth a year or more invested in the project, IMO. If you're gonna do a lambic, do it all- cereal mash, turbos mash, 200 degree sparge, etc... Let's be honest. Most times, I make a batch for the end result. If it's not great, I've lost only a few weeks. But in making a lambic it has to be as much about learning the process as the end result b/c there is a likelihood that the first lambic you make won't be the best you've ever had. If that's the case AND you shortchanged the process, that's 18 months or more wasted. Just my .02.

__________________

-----------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuporMan View Post
You guys joke around with this all you want, but let me tell you something: I tried making my own beer one time and wound up with herpes!


Primary: Billy Corrigan Ale, malted cider experiment, Optimator clone
Secondary: Sorachi Ace IPA
Bottled: Dark Lord Clone Imperial Stout, Winter 2010 Spiced Ale Ambassador Brown Ale, Michigan Berry pLambic
Kegged: Old Woodward ESB, Strawberry Blonde
On Deck: Honey brown ale, dry stout
cimirie is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-14-2010, 11:22 PM   #7
SumnerH
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA, USA
Posts: 2,058
Liked 26 Times on 23 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryane View Post
I dont think jamil gives the best advice when it comes to sours....
He's said he doesn't really like them very sour and brews accordingly. He's very good at brewing to the style he's aiming for, but if your taste disagrees you probably want to look for alternative advice.
__________________

On deck: Little Bo Pils, Bretta Off Dead (Brett pale)
Secondary: Oude Bruin, Red Sky at Morning (Sour brown ale)
On tap: Saison Duphunk (sour), Amarillo Slim (IPA), Earl White (ginger/bergamot wit)
Bottled: Number 8 (Belgian Strong Dark Ale), Eternale (Barleywine), Ancho Villa (Ancho/pasilla/chocolate/cinnamon RIS), Oak smoked porter (1/2 maple bourbon oaked, 1/2 apple brandy oaked)

SumnerH is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-15-2010, 12:06 AM   #8
Beernik
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: salt lake city, ut
Posts: 2,920
Liked 295 Times on 248 Posts
Likes Given: 20

Default

I did an extract with a little steeping grains. I'll post the recipe when I get home. If you used extract, you want to use almost all wheat because it's already cut 50-50 wheat and barley.

__________________
Cleaning my daughter's bedroom is like a freaking archeological dig.

On deck: Apple Honey Ale, Barleywine, Belgain Golden Ale, Malt Liquor, IRA, Wit, Uinta Hazel Clone, Uinta Yard Sale Clone.
Beernik is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-15-2010, 12:08 AM   #9
pipapat
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: slc
Posts: 315
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

based on what you guys have stated ill go for a all grain method.
Can i use flaked wheat?
If not should i use tortified wheat?

Sorry even after reading wild brews twice im still a bit confused.

thanks again.

Beernik you could post yours anyway i may do a 5 gallon and compare my results.

__________________

Last edited by pipapat; 04-15-2010 at 12:13 AM.
pipapat is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-15-2010, 01:20 AM   #10
Blauvelt
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 36
Default

flaked wheat is unmalted wheat. I think you can get regular unflaked unmalted wheat at most natural health food stores. I would not use torrified wheat for this purpose.

Lambic is 70% malted barley and 30% unmalted wheat but some homebrewers looking to add something extra sometimes add oats or other unmalted grains. You should also use aged stale hops or failing that use low alpha hops (tettnang, saaz) and cook them in the oven at a 250 degrees plus for a bit to simulate staleness. In lambic you should use quite a lot of hops but you want no hop bitterness or aroma, just their preservative value.

__________________
Blauvelt is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kriek lambic from wheat extract kit? zaireeka Lambic & Wild Brewing 4 01-08-2010 06:26 AM
Kriek Lambic from extract kit? zaireeka Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 5 01-07-2010 03:39 AM
Convert this: All Grain Recipe to Extract/Specialty Grain Doc Robinson Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 10-13-2009 07:03 PM
Conversion Equations: AG to Extract and vice versa || Grain, Extract, Hops, Boil size NitrouStang96 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 2 02-01-2008 03:44 AM
Question about steeping grain in extract/grain brew grez Extract Brewing 16 09-18-2006 03:37 PM